| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Is translation actually considered working? Thread poster: Dylan J Hartmann
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| Opening a bank account while travelling | May 19, 2015 |
My understanding was that we are considered to be carrying out our work at our place of tax-residence unless there is a good reason to treat things differently. I consider my working while travelling to be a kind of out-of-body experience, where my physical form is in one place but my fiscal essence remains in another.
I don't even see why working for local clients should represent a problem unless you are working with them "locally" (= non-virutally) on their premises or your physi... See more My understanding was that we are considered to be carrying out our work at our place of tax-residence unless there is a good reason to treat things differently. I consider my working while travelling to be a kind of out-of-body experience, where my physical form is in one place but my fiscal essence remains in another.
I don't even see why working for local clients should represent a problem unless you are working with them "locally" (= non-virutally) on their premises or your physical presence is otherwise somehow involved or relevant.
However, I've never heard of anyone opening a local bank account while travelling. I assume that would require establishing residence and it would suggest that you are travelling for a pretty extended period of time, so maybe you should provide some more details. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Samuel Murray 
Netherlands
Local time: 09:04
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| The purpose of your visit | May 19, 2015 |
DJHartmann wrote:
This is a question that has me wondering, are translators able to travel and effectively 'work' in countries where a 'no work clause' is stamped on their travel visa?
I think so, but don't test the customs officer. It is no longer unusual for people on holiday to travel with a laptop, and to be expected to be available online for queries from their employers, even if they're actually on holiday. When asked, tell him that you're on holiday. If he asks what the laptop is for, say it's for keeping in touch with people back home. Make sure you have a very vacation-like itinerary. Nothing wrong with seeing the sights in the mornings and "relaxing with the laptop" in the afternoon.
| | | | Kay Denney
France
Local time: 09:04
French to English
you only pay taxes if you are in the country for more than 6 months, so if you're travelling for over half the year you are exempt.
so it then makes sense that you would declare your revenue wherever else you are, although if you're not registering as a business elsewhere, it could get really hairy.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:04
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Lincoln Hui wrote:
Don't work with clients from that country.
Don't receive money in accounts from that country.
As long as you keep to these rules, kind of hard for anybody to find out.
To which I would add:
Never work on anyone else's premises when you're in the other country. Don't use anyone else's computer or other equipment. Don't go to any Internet cafés. Never go to anyone's office. Never discuss with anyone else the work OOPS SORRY *translation* you're doing. Don't even tell yourself what you're doing. In other words, keep schtum.
I agree with the others who've pointed out that in this Internet era, the concept of "place of work" has become meaningless. However the concept of "country of residence for tax purposes" remains very clear.
[Edited at 2015-05-19 08:29 GMT]
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Alex Lago
Spain
Local time: 09:04
English to Spanish
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| This would be considered working in that country | May 19, 2015 |
DJHartmann wrote:
OK, so what about receiving payments?
Let's say, rather than doubling up on bank fees by drawing from your home country bank account, you have a local bank account and direct payments to this account. How much will this complicate things?
Would, "my business is paying my salary" be a good enough excuse if questioned?
If you have the clients send the money to the country you are visiting you can't say "my business is paying my salary" because it would not be your business sending you the payments from your country, it would be clients making payments in the country you are visiting, so this would likely be proof against you.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:04
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Alex Lago wrote:
..... this would likely [sic] be proof against you.
This would only *be likely to* be proof against you if you were to issue an invoice in the foreign country where you were temporarily working (even if the address on the invoice were your home address) and/or if you were to receive payment into a bank account other than your bank account in your country - both of which seem fairly unlikely and should, of course, be avoided at all costs.
The main thing here, it seems to me, is that you should not appear to be intending to evade tax. You should never, ever get into that situation.
[Edited at 2015-05-19 10:12 GMT]
| | | | | Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member for the following reason: Empty post | Phil Hand
China
Local time: 15:04
Chinese to English
| That 3am feeling | May 19, 2015 |
Michael Wetzel wrote:
I consider my working while travelling to be a kind of out-of-body experience... I get those sometimes, but usually out of extreme sleep deprivation. I regard it as one of the worst parts of getting old that after two nights with no sleep I used to just get hallucinations, but I now get headaches.
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Alex Lago
Spain
Local time: 09:04
English to Spanish
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| Why the [sic]? | May 19, 2015 |
Tom in London wrote: Alex Lago wrote:
..... this would likely [sic] be proof against you. This would only *be likely to* be proof against you if you .......... and/or if you were to receive payment into a bank account other than your bank account in your country - both of which seem fairly unlikely and should, of course, be avoided at all costs.
I referred specifically to the fact that the poster mentioned they were thinking of using a bank account in the country they are visiting (to save bank fees they say) and having clients make payments into that account and then withdraw money from that account.
That would seem to be exactly what you mention in your own post and contrary to what you say is not unlikely because that is precisely what the poster is thinking of doing.
So like I said I believe doing so would be proof against them (and by what you say it seems like you do too).
[Edited at 2015-05-19 12:40 GMT]
| | | | | Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member for the following reason: Empty post | RobinB
United States
Local time: 02:04
German to English
| Source income | May 19, 2015 |
DJHartmann wrote:
OK, so what about receiving payments?
Let's say, rather than doubling up on bank fees by drawing from your home country bank account, you have a local bank account and direct payments to this account. How much will this complicate things?
Would, "my business is paying my salary" be a good enough excuse if questioned?
No, most countries would treat that as source income and tax it, even if you're not officially a resident in that country. And don't think you can get away with not telling them. In many countries, the banks will automatically inform the tax authorities about business income. I suggest you check the relevant DTC/DTA for the general principles (whereby you should note that Australian DTCs/DTAs tend to contain quite a lot of non-standard provisions), and consult a knowledgeable tax lawyer or accountant for the details.
Nobody's going to bother if you spend a few days working in a hotel room or similar location while you're visiting a country, as long as you're not actually working for a client domiciled or registered in that country, and as long as you're not visiting the country primarily to work - in which case you'll almost certainly be liable to pay tax on the income you earn, and at the same time you may not be eligible to claim deductible expenses (which is not a position you would want to be in).
But if you're going to be spending longer than just a few days, you really need to check with a knowledgeable tax lawyer or accountant about what exactly you should do. Things like "183 day rules" or similar mechanistic residence rules cannot be relied on per se to provide guidance on any particular tax treatment, especially when it comes to business income (which your translation income would presumably be classed as). It's worth remembering that failing to pay taxes that are payable (even if that failure to pay is due to ignorance) can and normally will be treated as tax evasion, and you really don't want to go there.
If you are thinking seriously about working abroad for an extended period of time, take professional advice. Like a good translation, it will be worth paying for.
| | | | | Why complicate things? | May 19, 2015 |
I do not see the reason for being so complicated - if you work in Australia with clients from eg. Chile, and then you are temporarily in Chile working with the same or different Chilean clients - this is the same to me. Also, being in that country will not help you get local clients unless you are referring to interpreting. You invoice as always using your home address and VAT or tax id etc and that is it.
However, if you open a bank account in that particular country, then it might... See more I do not see the reason for being so complicated - if you work in Australia with clients from eg. Chile, and then you are temporarily in Chile working with the same or different Chilean clients - this is the same to me. Also, being in that country will not help you get local clients unless you are referring to interpreting. You invoice as always using your home address and VAT or tax id etc and that is it.
However, if you open a bank account in that particular country, then it might bring you some complications, although it also depends how unlucky you are. In any case, I personally would avoid opening accounts in any country that you are visiting and stick to your modus operandi. And no paranoia please, one can work in public libraries, cyber cafes wherever one wants - are you going to hack banks there or sell drugs online?
However, if you come to some foreign country for a temporary visit and start asking lawyers and tax institutions how to do this and that, and if you can do it, then you will find some good headaches for sure.
Travelling and translating is as simple as that, and this is one of the best aspects of this profession. No need to complicate it. ▲ Collapse
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Andrea Muller (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:04
English to German
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| Get some specialist advice | May 19, 2015 |
I think your best bet is getting some specialist advice from some immigration lawyer who knows about the laws of the country your want to visit. Like RobinB said, it would be worth paying for just like a decent professional translation.
Or at least try some online immigration forums, if you can find one that covers the country you ar... See more I think your best bet is getting some specialist advice from some immigration lawyer who knows about the laws of the country your want to visit. Like RobinB said, it would be worth paying for just like a decent professional translation.
Or at least try some online immigration forums, if you can find one that covers the country you are going to: http://www.immigrationboards.com/immigration-to-other-countries/
Although you might not get caught, I think it would be good to know in advance whether you will actually be breaking the law and what the consequences of that would be. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Maybe I misunderstood the initial question, but it was..... | May 19, 2015 |
'TRAVELLING as a Translator', not LIVING as a translator in another country!
So, travel around around with your laptop as much as you want to, and when your visa expires, go to a neighbouring country (if possible) for a day or so and go back, and you can stay another 1, 2 or 3 months (works for most countries if you are Dutch, and Australian probably too).
About payment - On your regular (in my case Dutch) bankaccount, go with your debetcard/bankpass to the nearest ATM-... See more 'TRAVELLING as a Translator', not LIVING as a translator in another country!
So, travel around around with your laptop as much as you want to, and when your visa expires, go to a neighbouring country (if possible) for a day or so and go back, and you can stay another 1, 2 or 3 months (works for most countries if you are Dutch, and Australian probably too).
About payment - On your regular (in my case Dutch) bankaccount, go with your debetcard/bankpass to the nearest ATM-machine and get your money. Problem solved.
If you want to live permantly in a foreign country, yeh.... read the threads.
[Edited at 2015-05-19 22:43 GMT]
[Edited at 2015-05-19 22:44 GMT]
[Edited at 2015-05-19 22:45 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Dylan J Hartmann
Australia
Member (2014)
Thai to English
+ ...
MODERATOR TOPIC STARTER | In a general, rather than personal sense... please! | May 19, 2015 |
I wanted to avoid making this post about my own particular case, as I think this topic is relevant to many translators who might travel to regularly, or live as a non-immigrant in their source language country.
In that sense, revealing my personal situation wouldn't be helpful, however the advice given here has certainly given me great insight for what to do during my next trip back!
Many of us have partners from their source language country and have dual nationality ... See more I wanted to avoid making this post about my own particular case, as I think this topic is relevant to many translators who might travel to regularly, or live as a non-immigrant in their source language country.
In that sense, revealing my personal situation wouldn't be helpful, however the advice given here has certainly given me great insight for what to do during my next trip back!
Many of us have partners from their source language country and have dual nationality children, so that's why this post is important for those of us who will be going back and forth between the countries regularly.
Thanks!
DJH ▲ Collapse
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