| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | 260 words legal test in 1 hour Thread poster: Álvaro Espantaleón Moreno
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Sheila Wilson 
Spain
Local time: 13:59
Member (2007)
English
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| Unreasonable is not the same as impossible | Nov 18, 2015 |
It may well be possible; it may even be perfectly realistic for some people if it's well within their comfort zone. But is it reasonable? NO!
It shouldn't even be called a "test", IMHO. It's a sample of your work, but not just any old sample - it's a 100% relevant sample because the client has chosen it. We, in our effort to demonstrate to the client that we are the right choice for the job, may agree to provide such a sample.
BUT we are not here to be told what to do ... See more It may well be possible; it may even be perfectly realistic for some people if it's well within their comfort zone. But is it reasonable? NO!
It shouldn't even be called a "test", IMHO. It's a sample of your work, but not just any old sample - it's a 100% relevant sample because the client has chosen it. We, in our effort to demonstrate to the client that we are the right choice for the job, may agree to provide such a sample.
BUT we are not here to be told what to do by our CLIENTS. A school-kid's relationship with teachers/parents, or an employee's relationship with the boss, is NOT the relationship we should be looking for between us - service providers - and our clients. We should be working as their business partners. And it IS feasible to do that, even with agency clients. I grant you that they are becoming more and more domineering, but I really believe the attitude of many freelancers is giving them a mighty push in that direction. Act like kids and/or employees, expecting to be told what to do, and ... well ... they'll tell you what to do. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | I can't help thinking... | Nov 18, 2015 |
Sheila Wilson wrote:
It may well be possible; it may even be perfectly realistic for some people if it's well within their comfort zone. But is it reasonable? NO!
It shouldn't even be called a "test", IMHO. It's a sample of your work, but not just any old sample - it's a 100% relevant sample because the client has chosen it. We, in our effort to demonstrate to the client that we are the right choice for the job, may agree to provide such a sample.
BUT we are not here to be told what to do by our CLIENTS. A school-kid's relationship with teachers/parents, or an employee's relationship with the boss, is NOT the relationship we should be looking for between us - service providers - and our clients. We should be working as their business partners. And it IS feasible to do that, even with agency clients. I grant you that they are becoming more and more domineering, but I really believe the attitude of many freelancers is giving them a mighty push in that direction. Act like kids and/or employees, expecting to be told what to do, and ... well ... they'll tell you what to do.
... that if you'd assessed as many translators as I have over the years, you might not feel that way...
I think it's perfectly reasonable for an agency to find out whether someone is any good before using them, and the best way of finding out is to give them a test that will provide a realistic indication of what their everyday output is like.
Asking them for a sample of their choice or giving them a week to do an hour's work will obviously not provide that but a much more polished piece.
That said, you can't polish a turd, so sadly even these flawed approaches will still normally be enough.
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Sheila Wilson wrote:
It may well be possible; it may even be perfectly realistic for some people if it's well within their comfort zone. But is it reasonable? NO!
It shouldn't even be called a "test", IMHO. It's a sample of your work, but not just any old sample - it's a 100% relevant sample because the client has chosen it. We, in our effort to demonstrate to the client that we are the right choice for the job, may agree to provide such a sample.
BUT we are not here to be told what to do by our CLIENTS. A school-kid's relationship with teachers/parents, or an employee's relationship with the boss, is NOT the relationship we should be looking for between us - service providers - and our clients. We should be working as their business partners. And it IS feasible to do that, even with agency clients. I grant you that they are becoming more and more domineering, but I really believe the attitude of many freelancers is giving them a mighty push in that direction. Act like kids and/or employees, expecting to be told what to do, and ... well ... they'll tell you what to do.
I don't think it is at all about whether it is possible to do this or not, it is about finding clients who will treat you as an equal business partner and not like someone they can push around as they like, there are a lot who try, especially those who then tell you that they will pay you a very low rate.
I feel that I don't want to engage with that and prefer to work with clients who are prepared to negotiate mutually agreeable terms.
[Edited at 2015-11-18 14:21 GMT]
| | | | | the OP's question was | Nov 18, 2015 |
Alvaro Espantaleon wrote:
When I said that 1 hour was too short for a legal test, the recruiter told me that absolutely all candidates in all languages had managed to do the test in 1 hour and that none of them had objected.
What do you think?
I think that a seasoned translator should be able to deliver a 260 word test translation in their specialisation within one hour.
I also agree with Chris S
I think it's perfectly reasonable for an agency to find out whether someone is any good before using them, and the best way of finding out is to give them a test that will provide a realistic indication of what their everyday output is like.
Asking them for a sample of their choice or giving them a week to do an hour's work will obviously not provide that but a much more polished piece.
On a personal note: I would be very worried if I couldn't do 260 words per hour, because it would mean that I'd be delivering specialist translations at a ridiculous fee.
[Edited at 2015-11-18 15:41 GMT]
[Edited at 2015-11-18 17:10 GMT]
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mughwI
United States
Local time: 08:59
English to Spanish
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| Reasonable request | Nov 18, 2015 |
If the text falls within your specialization, 260 words in one hour is perfectly reasonable.
I think this seems like one of several good ways to determine if someone would be the right fit for a particular job, under real work conditions.
Now, slightly off-topic... some agencies seem to already have in place translation environments where job progress can be tracked in real time.
Now, won't that be lots of fun?
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mughwI wrote:
If the text falls within your specialization, 260 words in one hour is perfectly reasonable.
I think this seems like one of several good ways to determine if someone would be the right fit for a particular job, under real work conditions.
Anyone who can't do 260 words of 'standard' text in their specialisation should think again about whether they are in the right line of work. If the test can be scheduled at the transalor's convenience ("please send the text Friday 2PM, I will have an hour for this then") then I see nothing wrong with this approach. Real jobs have deadlines too, after all.
[Edited at 2015-11-19 08:08 GMT]
| | | | | Unreasonable | Nov 19, 2015 |
I did take the test and passed it (I took it because I had nothing better to do that morning); however, I find this evaluation system quite unreasonable.
When I outsource projects, I always calculate 1,500 words max per day. There is a negative correlation between speed and quality and a positive one between per word rate and quality. That's a statistical truth. As a matter of fact, I always disregard applicants stating that they can translate 3,000 to 5,000 words per day (for any s... See more I did take the test and passed it (I took it because I had nothing better to do that morning); however, I find this evaluation system quite unreasonable.
When I outsource projects, I always calculate 1,500 words max per day. There is a negative correlation between speed and quality and a positive one between per word rate and quality. That's a statistical truth. As a matter of fact, I always disregard applicants stating that they can translate 3,000 to 5,000 words per day (for any subject and on a regular basis). ▲ Collapse
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Alvaro Espantaleon wrote:
When I outsource projects, I always calculate 1,500 words max per day. There is a negative correlation between speed and quality and a positive one between per word rate and quality. That's a statistical truth.
But doesn't that mean that the time limit is a good idea (= better suited to predict the quality that is likely to be delivered on a consistent basis)? Who cares about what kind of quality we CAN produce under ideal conditions, the question for our clients is what kind of quality we WILL produce on a consistent basis under everyday conditions.
Demanding that you not use a CAT seems stupid (as would demanding that you use some specific tool, unless this is genuinely necessary and important enough to their workflow that they are willing to be unable to work with a majority of freelancers, whatever specific tool they've chosen). It also seems like they ought to demonstrate their good will and pleasantness by politely adding: please feel free to complete this test at your convenience, just send us an e-mail and we will send you the test, expecting you to return your test translation one hour later. Now that wouldn't be realistic, but the chances of a given translator having an hour to spare at a given moment is so close to random that it hardly seems like a useful gauge for predicting their future success.
I wouldn't do a free test (that's what small projects are for) and I wouldn't work for an agency, but among all the stories I hear about agencies' often ridiculous behavior, this actually sounds reasonable.
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| Honestly, don't see a problem | Nov 19, 2015 |
with this amount of words.
I have been translating legal documents for 10 years, and can do 260 words in an hour easily.
Those who specialise in the sphere shouldn't find this test difficult.
And lawyers always want their translations "yesterday", so speed is a factor.
| | | | | Huuuuge waste of time | Nov 19, 2015 |
I should have followed Tom's advice (he knew what he was saying).
Now they want to pay for 5 hours of proofreading (because proofreaders should proofread 1,500 words per hour).
Now we'll get the usual comments: Oh!, but I can proofread 2,500 words per hour and more because I'm soooo specialized and my brain is pretty big.
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Alvaro Espantaleon wrote:
Now we'll get the usual comments: Oh!, but I can proofread 2,500 words per hour and more because I'm soooo specialized and my brain is pretty big.
if you post a question on the forum, you must be prepared for people to disagree with you 
| | | | | Any offense taken? | Nov 19, 2015 |
Why did you ask the question, if not ready to hear ANY answers?
260 words per hour is more or less standard speed of translation. And those who specialise in this area can and do produce more.
All the above has nothing to do with the way the potential customer is ready to deal with you, or with your intention to respond to it and agree to any of its requirements.
So, there is no need to be sarcastic.
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| Why starting this thread? | Nov 19, 2015 |
Alvaro Espantaleon wrote:
I should have followed Tom's advice (he knew what he was saying).
Now they want to pay for 5 hours of proofreading (because proofreaders should proofread 1,500 words per hour).
Now we'll get the usual comments: Oh!, but I can proofread 2,500 words per hour and more because I'm soooo specialized and my brain is pretty big.
While you knew that you are soooo specialized and your brain is pretty big?
[Edited at 2015-11-19 22:41 GMT]
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Natalia Kobzareva wrote:
Why did you ask the question, if not ready to hear ANY answers?
260 words per hour is more or less standard speed of translation. And those who specialise in this area can and do produce more.
All the above has nothing to do with the way the potential customer is ready to deal with you, or with your intention to respond to it and agree to any of its requirements.
So, there is no need to be sarcastic.
You see. A TEST. Not average translation speed. A TEST about ANY legal matter. From a verdict from the Supreme Court to a book about equitable remedies. If you say you can translate any legal matter in 1 hour (260 words), I have three options: laughing, laughing and laughing.
| | | | | It is so sad | Nov 20, 2015 |
to see such a jolly good fellow to think so low of himself and others.
Cheers!
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