| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] | Working with a German agency Thread poster: Sinae Hong (X)
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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:30
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| Spanish practices | Jan 6, 2016 |
RobinB wrote:
......The fact that the tax authorities in some countries (e.g. Spain) don't understand this is probably a good reason for UK-based freelances selling to Spanish clients to get a VAT ID just to save themselves the hassle of arguing all the time with their clients.
I don't have this problem with *all* Spanish clients. Only some.
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Robin,
Thank you very much for the information. Then I'll assume that's true until someone provides me with a more convincing explanation (which is hardly likely): Ask the translator to include both statements (VAT exemption and reverse charge), file the invoice, pay the VAT, reclaim the VAT, don't worry about being audited. That's easy.
Incidentally, you've also brought us back to the actual topic of the thread and provided the original poster with something to send t... See more Robin,
Thank you very much for the information. Then I'll assume that's true until someone provides me with a more convincing explanation (which is hardly likely): Ask the translator to include both statements (VAT exemption and reverse charge), file the invoice, pay the VAT, reclaim the VAT, don't worry about being audited. That's easy.
Incidentally, you've also brought us back to the actual topic of the thread and provided the original poster with something to send to her client. ▲ Collapse
| | | | RobinB 
United States
Local time: 21:30
German to English
| Only applies to incoming invoices | Jan 6, 2016 |
Tom in London wrote: I didn't know that. Nevertheless I prefer not to write anything on my invoices that the tax inspector might require me to have translated by a third party (since presumably my own translation, as an interested party, might not be acceptable).
If you look closely at the wording of the VAT notice (I missed it myself first time round), you'll see that the potential translation requirement only applies to invoices that you receive, not those that you issue.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:30
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Michael Wetzel wrote:
.... you've also brought us back to the actual topic of the thread
Let's say we've explored the topic and some of its ramifications 
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RobinB
United States
Local time: 21:30
German to English
| No payment, just paper entries | Jan 6, 2016 |
Michael,
Ask the translator to include both statements (VAT exemption and reverse charge), file the invoice, pay the VAT, reclaim the VAT, don't worry about being audited. That's easy.
Just a reminder that no actual payments are involved for these transactions when you file your (monthly or quarterly) VAT return (USt-Voranmeldung). The notional USt due on the invoice received is added to the appropriate row in the VAT return, and the same amount is added to the input tax row, thereby cancelling out the first entry.
Incidentally, you've also brought us back to the actual topic of the thread and provided the original poster with something to send to her client.
We have already tried to sort this out off-list. Unfortunately her client is proving to be particularly "beratungsresistent"....
| | | | | An informed opinion | Jan 6, 2016 |
Tom in London wrote:
That's an interesting interpretation Chris, but have you asked your accountant? It is not permitted to do anything that even *looks like* an intention to avoid tax.
[Edited at 2016-01-06 11:29 GMT]
It isn't avoiding tax. I'm talking about a business trip, not a holiday. But obviously you can usefully and legitimately combine the two.
The last thing you want to do is listen to an accountant: tax avoidance is their raison d'etre!
I'm not encouraging anyone to do anything questionable, far from it. I've spent more than 20 years refusing to pay myself only a nominal salary to avoid national insurance, as repeatedly suggested by our accountant, because I think it's wrong - but it's totally legal and entirely normal.
On the other hand, I think many translators could usefully be more businesslike. Why sell yourself short? Why pay more for things than you need to? If it's a legitimate business expense, claim it.
On-topic: OP doesn't need to do anything. It's the agency's problem as they didn't ask for this information beforehand.
| | | | Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:30
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| The sword that cuts the Gordian knot | Jan 6, 2016 |
RobinB wrote:
The fact that the tax authorities in some countries (e.g. Spain) don't understand this is probably a good reason for UK-based freelances selling to Spanish clients to get a VAT ID just to save themselves the hassle of arguing all the time with their clients.
That is exactly the route I chose to take. I had a think about the time I would likely spend arguing with potential clients and asking questions like this on ProZ and business forums.
My conclusion was that filing for UK VAT registration and submitting a quarterly return would take less time while opening up potential clients. I went ahead and it has been pretty painless.
Incidentally, I am amused to see that a debate about this very subject of "requirements" for VAT numbers has just this past 20 minutes exploded on the zahlungspraxis mailing list. Ironically, this time it's a German translator battling with a Spanish agency...
Regards
Dan
| | | | Sinae Hong (X)
Local time: 03:30
English to Korean
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | re: working with a German agency | Jan 6, 2016 |
Thank you to Onur and all the others who contributed for your insight...
But after many painstaking email conversations, he doesn't seem to get it.
I reckon he might be a one man company...fairly new.
In the end, I've decided to send him my invoice with my Korean address along with Korean bank account number, in this case, he apparently does not need a VAT number.
So my advice to you all colleagues will be always ask, before taking a new assignment from eith... See more Thank you to Onur and all the others who contributed for your insight...
But after many painstaking email conversations, he doesn't seem to get it.
I reckon he might be a one man company...fairly new.
In the end, I've decided to send him my invoice with my Korean address along with Korean bank account number, in this case, he apparently does not need a VAT number.
So my advice to you all colleagues will be always ask, before taking a new assignment from either German/Spanish agency, if they need a VAT number, and if they do, and if you are not VAT registered, then don't work with them!
Thank you all for your help!
Onur Inal wrote:
Hi Sinae,
As far as I understand, you have done everything right so far. I live in Germany and I am a registered freelancer here. The rules are the same here. If you are a small business owner (Kleinunternehmer in German) and if you don't earn more than X amount of Euros per year, you don't pay the VAT. Tha means, your don't have a VAT number and you are VAT exempt.
I am a small business owner and I don't have a VAT number, either. But I do have a tax identification number.
I have worked with clients from Germany and other European countries before. Maybe you should tell your client that he should stop insisting on the VAT number. A simple Tax-ID should work.
Best wishes,
Onur
[Edited at 2016-01-06 20:02 GMT]
[Edited at 2016-01-06 20:03 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Glad that I could elicit a smiley face from Tom. It's actually my needless and deliberate selection of a certain adjective that so helpfully "broadened" the conversation in the first place.
And Dan: In the German case it's simple. The translator is misinformed and should (and probably must) apply to the Bundeszentralamt für Steuern (BzSt) for an Umsatzsteuer-Identifikationsnummer (USt-IdNr.).
In Germany, this is completely separate from being registered or exempt from chargi... See more Glad that I could elicit a smiley face from Tom. It's actually my needless and deliberate selection of a certain adjective that so helpfully "broadened" the conversation in the first place.
And Dan: In the German case it's simple. The translator is misinformed and should (and probably must) apply to the Bundeszentralamt für Steuern (BzSt) for an Umsatzsteuer-Identifikationsnummer (USt-IdNr.).
In Germany, this is completely separate from being registered or exempt from charging VAT and in administrative terms it only involves sending in a quarterly report with the client VAT-number and the amount due for any inner-EU invoices sent (not payment received!) in a given quarter. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Why can't it be this easy everywhere! | Jan 6, 2016 |
Meriadec Perrin wrote:
The only thing to do then on you side (I guess it's the same thing in all EU countries) is to report all your intracommunity sales of services in a specific place (there is a web service for that in France, you'll need to check about that in the UK). This is a EU requirement, to check if there is no cheating at the VAT level, from the companies which buy services outside their own country.
That's it!
Mériadec
[Edited at 2016-01-06 04:10 GMT]
[Edited at 2016-01-06 04:12 GMT]
Unfortunately this is not the case in every EU country, wouldn't that be wonderful if every country had implemented the directives in the same "easy" way... I have commented on a few threads similar to this one, so I'm not going to repeat it all again here, but in short... both the UK translator and the German agency are doing everything right.
| | | | | Not in the UK | Jan 6, 2016 |
Erik Freitag wrote:
In Germany, getting a VAT ID does not depend on your income crossing the VAT threshold. In other words: You can have a VAT ID and still be exempt from VAT. I guess this should be possible in the UK as well.
It's the same situation in France, but it is definitely NOT possible in the UK at this time.
| | | | Kay Denney
France
Local time: 04:30
French to English
I remember having this problem as a PM for a French agency outsourcing to translators in the UK. Basically we needed a number, and we put whatever number the translator gave us in the relevant box on the relevant form. Some gave us their NI number, others gave us some sort of taxpayer's number (maybe what has been termed a tax ID in this thread?). I'm pretty sure one just made a number up. Tax inspectors never complained. But then they may not have demonstrated as high a level of conscientiousn... See more I remember having this problem as a PM for a French agency outsourcing to translators in the UK. Basically we needed a number, and we put whatever number the translator gave us in the relevant box on the relevant form. Some gave us their NI number, others gave us some sort of taxpayer's number (maybe what has been termed a tax ID in this thread?). I'm pretty sure one just made a number up. Tax inspectors never complained. But then they may not have demonstrated as high a level of conscientiousness as their German counterparts. ▲ Collapse
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