| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5] > | My diversified client portfolio dried up! Thread poster: Tom in London
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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:06
Member (2008)
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER
Michael Wetzel wrote:
You are a perfectionist with an advanced degree and extensive professional experience in the field of architecture, you are fluent in your source language and you presumably still have a large number of professionally relevant contacts in Italy. It doesn't get any better than that.
From one perfectionist to another - yes, that's how it is. Thanks! I'm going to keep on doing what I'm doing.
| | | | Ty Kendall 
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:06
Hebrew to English
| Just when you thought cat-worship was an ancient Egyptian practice | Feb 12, 2016 |
Tom in London wrote:
I am beginning to suspect that most of the translators here on Proz live on Planet CAT
As much as I disagree with you on other things, I am in total agreement here.
And I don't really buy Anna Sarah Krämer Fazendeiro's agriculture analogy. You can make a tidy living in translation without using CAT tools (I've managed to survive for 5 years without needing one), although some language pairs seem more obsessed with them than others, so maybe I am just lucky.
Re: diversified client portfolio
I've always looked at this as the Holy Grail. It's much easier said than done. It tends to be my New Year's resolution every year: I must diversify my client portfolio!
[Edited at 2016-02-12 11:59 GMT]
| | | | Joakim Braun
Sweden
Local time: 18:06
German to Swedish
+ ...
Anna Sarah Krämer Fazendeiro wrote:
I prefer to dig fields by hand, because tractors and machines have a steep learning curve. They are not intuitive and I refuse to work with them.
Let's try this instead: I'm a racing driver with multiple licenses and regularly drive a huge range of machines. I pick up new technology easily and usually work with high-end equipment that has a steep learning curve, but is actually simple and pleasant to use and 100% reliable if you know what you're doing.
Some people want me to use 1980s tractors for field work because it's more convenient for them, and they don't realize how high-end equipment is supposed to work. They insist their old British Leylands are fantastic, cutting-edge technology, repaint them twice a year and hang a fresh Wunderbaum from the rearview mirror every Sunday. When it occasionally loses a wheel or simply stops, they crowd around the smoking wreck and say "That's life, saw a thread about this in the British Leyland forum. Did you try rotating the majigillator?" A spirited discussion ensues, the truck still doesn't start - now the crowd departs for the pub, and spends the rest of the day bonding around their shared knowledge of British Leyland suspensions.
[Bearbeitet am 2016-02-12 14:37 GMT]
| | | | | The opposite | Feb 12, 2016 |
I'm in the opposite situation, having returned to the market during 2014 after an involuntary gap of some years (French sabotage of the self-employed so I needed to get out before it was worth the trouble working again). At first, not much moved, but in May and October last year, two major clients respectively started sending me what is now enough work for making a living. One mainly sends me technical/marketing jobs about cars, the other only 'esoteric' jobs (pure fantasy). Both pay on time and... See more I'm in the opposite situation, having returned to the market during 2014 after an involuntary gap of some years (French sabotage of the self-employed so I needed to get out before it was worth the trouble working again). At first, not much moved, but in May and October last year, two major clients respectively started sending me what is now enough work for making a living. One mainly sends me technical/marketing jobs about cars, the other only 'esoteric' jobs (pure fantasy). Both pay on time and are a pleasure to do business with.
I found one client by replying to a Proz job while the other client found me and contacted me via my own website’s contact form, not Proz.
I had been approved for Pro status in FR-DA on Proz just before the first client came on board. I have no proof there is a connection, but I think there is. Both of these clients mainly send me work in that combination.
Also, Tom, I would not have been able to work with these clients without willingness to use CAT tools. One uses MemoQ and Memsource, but they supply the licences themselves (valid only for their own jobs). The other needs to be able to get the TM back, so a CAT tool is required, but they don't specify which. I presently use MemoQ (my own licence), but I'm not happy about how it ruins formatting of html and xml files, so I will be looking at others, for example Déjà Vu.
I was sceptical about CAT tools too before starting to use them, but I have concluded they are a lesser evil than not earning enough, and they do also making certain things easier or faster.
As for giving the translation memory to the client, one simply sets up a TM for that particular client or job, so they only get what they could otherwise extract themselves from the completed translation, nothing else.
When they count various grades of repeat contents, it is done on segment (~sentence) basis, not word basis. Example: one of the 'esoteric' jobs contained twelve different 2016 horoscopes, which nevertheless shared most of the contents with some variations, so that out of 75,000 words, 50,000 were repeated segments. A CAT tool can automatically fill in the 50,000 segments, and I can understand they don't want to pay for 75,000 words when the work can in fact be boiled down to 25,000 words. I keep track of how much time I spend, and I'm satisfied with the resulting pay per hour.
The 'technical' client also systematically applies a grading system. Many of the 100 % matches already in their translation memory aren't that good, and some even contain mistakes, but I've calculated once and for all how much time I can allow for such reduced-pay segments, and then I simply do them faster and more superficially. I'm transparent about this with the client, and they know and accept that that's the result of their clients' using such grading systems. In other words, I ensure they get what they pay for.
I'm more and more fed up with the way Microsoft is taking Windows and therefore still on Windows 7, and I have disabled the three patches that otherwise kept pestering me to install Windows 10, so I'm more and more tempted to try OS X, but I think most CAT tools require Windows or Windows emulation on OS X. Even with Windows 7, I waste countless hours on trivial housekeeping tasks and unintuitive design – and I'm an old IBM mainframe systems specialist, so I wonder how non-IT people deal with Windows' quirks. Also, my Samsung laptop keeps ‘freezing up’ with irregular intervals, and I have no idea what causes it. Now it’s no longer under warranty, I’ll take it apart one day and check if there is enough thermal paste on the processors, as overheating will make them stop. Every time it freezes, it takes 30 minutes before everything is up and running again. A Windows computer nearly always gets slower and slower as the years go by.
As for cats, I have trained mine not to walk or sit on the keyboard, but one of them still likes to curl up against the mouse, and that isn't terribly practical, and it sometimes comes within a whisker of touching a key – not purrfect, but I manage.
[Edited at 2016-02-12 12:09 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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| Simply not true | Feb 12, 2016 |
Tom in London wrote:
I simply DO NOT WANT to do the kind of translating work that can be done with CAT tools. Those are boring, uninteresting, repetitive, mechanical documents. I'd rather watch paint dry than spend my life doing that type of translation. I'm not so desperate for work that I'd be willing to invest time and money in CAT tools, to make my life boring ! Sometimes I do accept those jobs when they come from regular clients, but they're never welcome and I hate doing them.
I'm perfectly happy to do fewer jobs, but at a better rate and with plenty of time to devote to making elegant, polished, intelligent text that flows.
I am beginning to suspect that most of the translators here on Proz live on Planet CAT where translating is just a mechanical process offering little or no intellectual/cultural stimulus. The solution to every problem always seems to be "use a CAT tool". But my aim in life is to do work that's interesting.
It's obviously your own choice whether to use a CAT tool or not, but your claims above are simply not true.
Any type of translation, creative or not, can be done in a CAT tool (although as a perfectionist, you can probably dig up the odd exception). Those 'fantasy' horoscope-type texts I translate are absolutely not boring (I even sometimes find myself laughing at the preposterous claims in the texts), and many of them contain almost no repetitions. Marketing/brochure texts for cars also are not boring but the end client simply puts everything into their cloud-managed CAT system, repetitions or not. Such translations can be quite creative. There is nothing "mechanical" about doing such translations. It's a question of getting clients that send you interesting texts.
Maybe diversifying into more fields than the narrow ones you describe would also help. You seem to depend on a very limited market segment. But having a CAT tool simply makes you more attractive to many clients, and your CAT allergy seems to be based on flawed premises.
| | | | Erik Freitag
Germany
Local time: 18:06
Member (2006)
Dutch to German
+ ...
| Some thoughts | Feb 12, 2016 |
Over the years, I've noticed that when clients that used to send regular work "dry up", it's mostly due to their own loss of an important client. They continue to send the odd job for other (sometimes one-off) clients, but the overall volume suddenly drops.
But I've also noticed that they usually come back to me when they acquire a new client. Once they even came back with the same client (the Belgian leg of a global player), who had initially dropped them after some years as they w... See more Over the years, I've noticed that when clients that used to send regular work "dry up", it's mostly due to their own loss of an important client. They continue to send the odd job for other (sometimes one-off) clients, but the overall volume suddenly drops.
But I've also noticed that they usually come back to me when they acquire a new client. Once they even came back with the same client (the Belgian leg of a global player), who had initially dropped them after some years as they were looking for a cheaper service. They came back half a year later, after finding out that they just couldn't get the same quality they got used to in all the years working with me from my cheaper competitors.
I suspect that this mechanism may not work as good for you. One of your main unique selling points (hey, anyone care for a round of "bullshit bingo"?) may work to your disadvantage here, namely the fact that you're working within a very narrow specialization. This will make it more difficult for clients to supply you with work, which in turn means that you will have to go looking for new clients, while translators with a broader spectrum of subject fields can rely on established clients coming back to them. Don't know if this holds true, but maybe worth thinking about.
(Your avoidance of CAT tools may work in the same way and narrow the amount of possible jobs for you to take on. I think we have discussed your misconception that there's a relationship between how interesting a certain text is and whether you translate it with or without a CAT tool enough. Fact is, you're depriving yourself of a big portion of interesting and well paid translation jobs, on the basis of an ill-informed prejudice. That's fine, I foster my prejudices as well (MT) ... Anyway: In my book, if you just don't like and want to work with CAT tools, that's reason enough not to do it.)
To sum up: I've learnt not to worry too much - they usually come back. Maybe trying to broaden your subject spectrum could help a litte.
[Edited at 2016-02-12 14:17 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | I'm presuming | Feb 12, 2016 |
Tom has never actually been asked to use a CAT tool in his line of work. So why on earth should he get one?
| | | | | I'm a CAT person | Feb 12, 2016 |
As a technical translator, CAT tools are essential. especially at my in-house position. Yes manuals, product descriptions and technical documentation can be boring and ARE repetitive. But they are a mandatory component of every product - industrial or consumer. And any company who wants to do business internationally has to have this material translated; not to mention mention websites and content manangement systems
That's where CATs prove their worth. As for agency discounts, one ... See more As a technical translator, CAT tools are essential. especially at my in-house position. Yes manuals, product descriptions and technical documentation can be boring and ARE repetitive. But they are a mandatory component of every product - industrial or consumer. And any company who wants to do business internationally has to have this material translated; not to mention mention websites and content manangement systems
That's where CATs prove their worth. As for agency discounts, one is not obligated to accept them.
And even without repetitions and TMs, being able to break a huge document into clear, manageable segments is, for me at least, a Godsend. ▲ Collapse
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| Different types | Feb 12, 2016 |
Tom in London wrote: Domenico Trimboli wrote:
Over the past few months I did a lot of marketing, and I have now almost entirely replaced them with other, better-paying clients. That's good to know. What kind of marketing did you do?
First I started to send CVs to translation agencies... I research each agency I contact quite extensively, and only get in touch if they specialize in one of my areas of expertise and they're in a first-world country... which knocks their number down to very few potential agencies.
I customize every email and CV I send depending on the agency, which translates (ahem...) into roughly 30 minutes from opening their website to sending the application. My response rate is circa 40%.
I sent 26 applications and got 12 answers. This led to one job offer only, which I had to turn down. Still, I believe it takes time before a contact becomes a client, and I'm sure the time investment will pay off over the years.
In the meanwhile I was contacted by an agency I had contacted last year and they may become a regular client.
Then I answered job posts on the Job Board... there's a misconception that only bottom feeders post their projects there, but my experience tells me otherwise. Over the years, I got a number of good clients through the Job Board which paid well (my rate currently starts at £0,08) and promptly. Over the last 6 months I got two clients this way, and they seem to send projects quite regularly.
Last, I had my website re-done, I re-wrote my marketing materials, and I am attending conferences to get in touch with potential direct clients.
The first conference was in London, it was the first I ever attended, and I don't think it'll bring me any jobs in the future. I understood where I went wrong, though, and I'm confident the second one will be much better.
This is quite an expensive strategy (I already spent more than € 2,000 in 2016 only), but still... chi non risica non rosica
| | | | | Did you discuss the issue with them? | Feb 12, 2016 |
Tom in London wrote:
...So I can only conclude that those six or seven agencies just don't have any more work of the appropriate type to give me.
If you feel that you could probe the contacts you have in those agencies without annoying them, you could maybe pinpoint reasons and act accordingly: loss of end customer, implementation of new processes (such as CAT repositories), your preferred contact left and what-not.
Philippe
| | | | | Pissing into the wind | Feb 12, 2016 |
Tom in London wrote:
Not for the kind of translations in which I specialise, e.g.
- academic papers on matters relating to urban and territorial planning
- construction and plant analytical reports on the condition of existing buildings/the advisability of purchasing them etc.
- building test reports
- specialist architecture/product design/interiors magazine articles written in a creative style and aimed at an upmarket readership
I simply DO NOT WANT to do the kind of translating work that can be done with CAT tools. Those are boring, uninteresting, repetitive, mechanical documents.
Actually, Tom, all of the above *can* be translated perfectly well using a CAT tool. It really is just a case of getting used to it.
Whether you want to get used to it is another matter.
I used to feel the same way as you, but now happily translate everything in a Word-based CAT tool for my own convenience.
But I refuse to use clients' own memories.
Because the real evil out there is not the CAT tools themselves, nor their inappropriate application by agencies desperate to cut costs, but the dire standard of the memories they expect you to use and give discounts for.
So although I do use CAT, we are effectively in the same position - and I suspect we are both fighting a losing battle when it comes to working with agencies.
I'm increasingly having to work with direct clients instead, which has problems of its own.
| | | | | Dire standard of the memories | Feb 12, 2016 |
Chris S wrote:
…the dire standard of the memories they expect you to use and give discounts for.
I take a pragmatic approach and tell them I apply the garbage in, garbage out principle (in less provocative words), and that has worked until now. They accept that. If they don't, they'll have to find someone else to do it. They get the reductions imposed by the end client. I routinely measure how much time I spend for how much gain and then adjust the time spent on discounted segments as a consequence.
I have occasionally told them that a number of locked segments that were not to be touched had too many errors in them, and the end client has then sometimes accepted to pay more to get them reviewed.
It's no use to insist that we must provide top quality for discounted segments. They get what they pay for, just as a kebab shop doesn't provide a gourmet meal. An idealistic approach doesn't get one very far in today's translation market. Gourmet restaurants only attract a very small part of the market.
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| Quiet period... | Feb 12, 2016 |
Hiya Tom,
I agree with Sheila that, with any luck, your contacts are just dormant rather than extinct!
I work in your same language pair, and began writing a reply earlier to sympathise and say that I too have had a quiet start to the year (my portfolio sounds similar to yours and, like you, it has been slim pickings on all fronts of late)...but as I was writing, my inbox pinged, twice:
- one new PM from one of my favourite agencies, offering a potential p... See more Hiya Tom,
I agree with Sheila that, with any luck, your contacts are just dormant rather than extinct!
I work in your same language pair, and began writing a reply earlier to sympathise and say that I too have had a quiet start to the year (my portfolio sounds similar to yours and, like you, it has been slim pickings on all fronts of late)...but as I was writing, my inbox pinged, twice:
- one new PM from one of my favourite agencies, offering a potential project
- and one PM who used to work with that same agency, with a juicy offer from the new agency she now works for (I wasn't aware she'd moved)
So two upcoming projects and some accidental diversification to boot...I'm sure your clients will come back to life as soon as they have something suitable to offer you, and in the meantime, plenty of time for marketing
P.S. I have often heard it said that sometimes it's worth touching base with agencies you haven't heard from in a while, in case there have been some internal changes that have resulted in you no longer being so firmly on their radar. It seems as though that may have been the case for me with agency no. 1 above, and perhaps if I had dropped them a line to "check in", I may have come to the attention of the new PM(s?) sooner. Just a thought! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Joakim Braun
Sweden
Local time: 18:06
German to Swedish
+ ...
Thomas T. Frost wrote:
It's no use to insist that we must provide top quality for discounted segments. They get what they pay for (...)
Not really. I'll bet lots of us provide a garbage in, top quality out service (to our financial detriment).
If I can't deliver top quality because rates are too low, I'd rather go into some other business. Doing sub-par work is too frustrating.
| | | | | Each one's choice | Feb 12, 2016 |
Joakim Braun wrote:
I'll bet lots of us provide a garbage in, top quality out service (to our financial detriment).
You are most certainly right, and it works to the detriment of everybody if clients get used to getting good quality for bad money. I make a point out of making it clear to the concerned client that the quality of the discounted segments is lower than for the fully paid segments, and not giving them full quality for discounted money.
Joakim Braun wrote:
If I can't deliver top quality because rates are too low, I'd rather go into some other business. Doing sub-par work is too frustrating.
That's each one's choice. Not all of us have another potential career waiting. It's a question of attitude. When a discounted segment is poorly written, I do what can be justified in the shorter time frame available, and since I did not create the poorly written sentence in the first place, I don't consider it sub-par work what I'm concerned, simply work done as well as possible under the conditions they have defined. If it’s really bad, I point out that it really needs more work but that that isn’t included in the standard price. Then they can pay more if they want it done better. If you run a restaurant, you can't make a living out of serving Dom Perignon for all the guests even if they only want to pay for the house wine. The trouble with translators is many are translators before they are business people and seem unable to adjust quality down to what some clients are willing to pay for.
I would not want to take on translations where such poor-quality discounted segments were a major part of the job, though. I can accept it as long as it doesn't become dominant. This is a good client, not a so-called bottom feeder, and an uncompromising attitude is often counterproductive. One has to take the bad with the good sometimes to make a client relationship work.
| | | | | Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » My diversified client portfolio dried up! | TM-Town | Manage your TMs and Terms ... and boost your translation business
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