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Ask for guarantees when doing a translation test?
Thread poster: Juan Pablo Sans
Juan Pablo Sans
Juan Pablo Sans  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 07:21
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Yes, that might work Feb 14, 2016

I mean, the important thing is to show you are a busy person and that you don't give away your time for free unless there is something really worth it. I think that is the strategy.

While I will always probably need to take tests, I can at least develop an approach that allows me to win and not a destructive approach of test-passed-oblivion or test-reviewer with dubious corrections-failed-appeal-nowhere.

Cheers to everybody!...
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I mean, the important thing is to show you are a busy person and that you don't give away your time for free unless there is something really worth it. I think that is the strategy.

While I will always probably need to take tests, I can at least develop an approach that allows me to win and not a destructive approach of test-passed-oblivion or test-reviewer with dubious corrections-failed-appeal-nowhere.

Cheers to everybody!
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Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 11:21
Member (2007)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
I would rather do... Feb 14, 2016

.. a translation test (300 words, usually) for free than sending diplomas, references and the like and having to fill endless forms. Anyway, that’s how I got some of my best clients (direct clients and translation agencies)…

 
Robert Forstag
Robert Forstag  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 07:21
Spanish to English
+ ...
I endorse Dan Lucas' four points Feb 14, 2016

I really do not like unpaid tests either, but translating 300 words shouldn't take most translators more than half an hour to complete. Not a huge investment of time, as long as you have no paid work to do and can knock off the unpaid test at your leisure.

I agree that guarantees won't work. I've received promises from a number of agencies that I would hear back from them regarding a test within a couple of weeks...and it never happened. What exactly can I do at that point? Write na
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I really do not like unpaid tests either, but translating 300 words shouldn't take most translators more than half an hour to complete. Not a huge investment of time, as long as you have no paid work to do and can knock off the unpaid test at your leisure.

I agree that guarantees won't work. I've received promises from a number of agencies that I would hear back from them regarding a test within a couple of weeks...and it never happened. What exactly can I do at that point? Write nasty e-mails?

Which brings me to Dan's point about "not being difficult." Freelancers often have more than enough reason to get indignant, but projecting a demanding and negative attitude toward a potential client is really stupid, especially if you are working in language pairs where there is either a lot of competition or very little demand.



[Edited at 2016-02-14 21:55 GMT]
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Michael Newton
Michael Newton  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 07:21
Japanese to English
+ ...
Unpaid test translations Feb 14, 2016

There are two issues here:
(1) If you don't pass the test, many agencies refuse to tell you why, which is suspicious. If there is a valid reason, why not share the information? Most likely the "test" is a bidding sample. I once did a series of "bidding samples" for an agency. They told me time after time that "we didn't get the contract". I suspected that they were using my sample to garner the contract after which they would give the actual work to cheaper translators. The next time a bid
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There are two issues here:
(1) If you don't pass the test, many agencies refuse to tell you why, which is suspicious. If there is a valid reason, why not share the information? Most likely the "test" is a bidding sample. I once did a series of "bidding samples" for an agency. They told me time after time that "we didn't get the contract". I suspected that they were using my sample to garner the contract after which they would give the actual work to cheaper translators. The next time a bidding sample came my way from the same agency I made sure the sample would be refused. Several weeks later I got an indignant call from the agency blaming me for "losing the contract". They never contacted me again.

(2) Based on experience, I have concluded that the only reason many agencies ask for
a test as well as the signed NDA and registration on their site is to make the recruiter a bit richer. I have had so many recruiters promise me work if only I will go through the test-NDA-registration. They are pushy and anxious to sign me up and get me to do the paperwork. Once the paperwork is finished, they drop you. I conclude that recruiters get bonuses/remuneration for each translator they "recruit". I have had some agencies try to sign me up twice in a 12-month period saying that they need an "updated resume". Now I tell the recruiters I will go through the process only for a specific project. Of course I never hear from them again. Save yourself the trouble and avoid these agencies.
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Łukasz Gos-Furmankiewicz
Łukasz Gos-Furmankiewicz  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 12:21
English to Polish
+ ...
... Feb 15, 2016

juanpablosans wrote:

Hello colleagues,

I hope you are OK. I know the topic of the translation tests might be not uncommon here, but I wonder if you could help me in this case. As I am SICK of taking free translation tests leading you nowhere but to the Land of Wasted Time and Frustration, I have started asking translation agencies money for them. As you might imagine, they don't want to pay for them, arguing this is part of their recruitment process.


The argument actually has some merit. While such a test does claim your time, it isn't a normal job that generates income.

Whether you should consent to be tested is a different matter altogether.

So, my second option will be to ask them guarantees:


It may actually seem less complicated to them if you refuse the test outright. Since humans aren't always at their brightest, it's possible for the same agency that would be willing to waive the test to still just not come up with this alternative spontaneously when turning down your request for guarantees. You may need to expressly point this solution out to them, to avoid discouraging them with complicated nonstandard conditions.

1) I will have the right to appeal any dubious decision correctors and reviewers may have (which are many, as you never know who is actually correcting you).


Personally, I wouldn't even grant them concession of calling it an appeal (an appeal implies they have the authority to consider it and either grant it or not) but rather simply include a stipulation that they are going to need to justify any corrections or issues flagged and respond to feedback from you.

2) I will have the right to have an actual part of the work and not just be left in a database who knows where.


Of course. Do note that many agencies just test and negotiate down as many freelancers as they can, just in case. Sometimes I wonder if the entire agency world isn't doing just that. Collective intelligence, hive overmind, you get the point.

3) I will have the right to be fairly compensated if no work is assigned to me within the next six months.


Too complicated IMHO, and not worth the bother. Instead, you should rather be prepared to play the role of someone who can afford to lose a couple dozen euros. You gain more leverage in other aspects of the negotiation if you don't press money as an important issue.

Of course, few agencies have really accepted this,


Agencies aren't reputed for flexibility.

What do you think? What is your policy with translation tests?


I oppose the idea of agencies (let alone direct clients who are not serious institutions with their own translation departments) either:

i) presuming to be able to grade you better than people who already have (universities, state examiners, associations etc., even previous clients to some extent); or
ii) knowing they can't but requesting it anyway.

I'll give them an unpaid* sample to decide their feelings on if they back down from requesting a test to grade.

* I don't like to hear the adjective 'free' a lot from a prospective client, so if they keep talking too much about a 'free sample' like it's their right, it's probably not going to end well.

Otherwise I remember that agencies which really have work usually move straight to it without bothering with tests (unless you're just a bit too green, on paper), but at the same time I remember than not charging a prospect for 200-500 words of a showcase of my ability is just about the cheapest direct marketing there is, and jut about the most effective.

Outright refusing any tests or samples can also be quite effective, but it's a bit too gimmicky.


 
Kay Denney
Kay Denney  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 12:21
French to English
Me too Feb 15, 2016

philgoddard wrote:

I say I'm happy to do unpaid samples, but only if they have a specific job in mind. This works very well most of the time.


Me too.
If they have a particular job in mind for me, they can send it to me, I'll do whatever 200-word section for them to assess, then I'll finish the job once they've decided it's OK.

When they're bidding, I tell them they have to pay for my services, and I'll reimburse them if they can prove they didn't win the bid because of the quality of my translation. So I have done tests a couple of times in such circumstances, nobody has ever been able to prove that my translation was bad.


I wouldn't ever adopt Michael's strategy of making sure a bid would be refused, I wouldn't want to damage my reputation like that!


 
Jo Macdonald
Jo Macdonald  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 12:21
Member (2005)
Italian to English
+ ...
Just answer Feb 15, 2016

Thanks for getting in touch.
No problem doing a test if it's paid work, or you can find many examples of my translations and feedback from clients at the links below.


 
Gabriele Demuth
Gabriele Demuth  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 11:21
English to German
Yes, but you never know Feb 15, 2016

Teresa Borges wrote:

.. a translation test (300 words, usually) for free than sending diplomas, references and the like and having to fill endless forms. Anyway, that’s how I got some of my best clients (direct clients and translation agencies)…


Sometimes they do indeed have a job very soon, other times you spend a lot of time negotiating rates, then a free test, then they send all their forms ... then you might never hear from them again.

But it's often worth taking that risk if it appears to be a good agency.


 
jyuan_us
jyuan_us  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 07:21
Member (2005)
Chinese to English
A previous sample is worthless Feb 15, 2016

juanpablosans wrote:


The other option I have found is to send them samples from previous projects and tell them: this is something I delivered this year! Please use it as a reference.

Cheers



because you simply cannot prove you actually did it.


 
jyuan_us
jyuan_us  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 07:21
Member (2005)
Chinese to English
I don't understand your behavior Feb 15, 2016

Michael Newton wrote:
The next time a bidding sample came my way from the same agency I made sure the sample would be refused. Several weeks later I got an indignant call from the agency blaming me for "losing the contract". They never contacted me again.


Can you elaborate on that?


 
Kaja Bartkowska
Kaja Bartkowska  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 12:21
German to Polish
+ ...
I'm rather against samples Feb 15, 2016

First of all, I simply don't understand why I should work for free. I wouldn't go to a mechanic and ask him to change the oil in my car for free (it should take around the same amount of time as translating 300 words) and then I would maybe come back in the future to let him do more complex work on my car.

Second of all, by not charging anything for samples we can't avoid the situations in which we're simply being used (e.g. when the end customer pays for those 300 words).
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First of all, I simply don't understand why I should work for free. I wouldn't go to a mechanic and ask him to change the oil in my car for free (it should take around the same amount of time as translating 300 words) and then I would maybe come back in the future to let him do more complex work on my car.

Second of all, by not charging anything for samples we can't avoid the situations in which we're simply being used (e.g. when the end customer pays for those 300 words).

Third of all, as juanpablosans already mentioned, it's not our investment. The agency is looking for a translator and they want to make sure that they hire a professional, hence they are investing money in the recruitment process.

Last but not least, I'm even unsure about the paid samples. I've already had an impression a few times that even though I received money for a "sample", it wasn't really a sample, but e.g. someone simply sent me the most difficult extract from the whole document and as soon as they got the most complicated terms translated by me, they could go ahead with translating the rest of the text which I didn't get for translation (as well as any feedback).
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Kay Denney
Kay Denney  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 12:21
French to English
please elaborate Feb 15, 2016

jyuan_us wrote:

Michael Newton wrote:
The next time a bidding sample came my way from the same agency I made sure the sample would be refused. Several weeks later I got an indignant call from the agency blaming me for "losing the contract". They never contacted me again.


Can you elaborate on that?


I too would like to know more. I mean, what was the point? you lost a client and damaged your reputation, and I bet the agency won't change anything except strike you out of the database and possibly introduce checking of samples. Looks like a lose-lose situation to me.


 
Kuochoe Nikoi-Kotei
Kuochoe Nikoi-Kotei  Identity Verified
Ghana
Local time: 11:21
Japanese to English
True, but... Feb 15, 2016

jyuan_us wrote:

A previous sample is worthless
because you simply cannot prove you actually did it.

The same goes for any test they ask you to take.

I did do one unpaid test where the client contacted me at a specific time in the day and gave me X hours to do the translation and send it back, so there's that I suppose. I got the whole "Congratulations you passed the test now send us a whole raft of papers" runaround, but no work ever came out of it. Of course.


 
Dan Lucas
Dan Lucas  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 11:21
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
Hmm, here's a different analogy Feb 16, 2016

Bartkowska wrote:
First of all, I simply don't understand why I should work for free. I wouldn't go to a mechanic and ask him to change the oil in my car for free (it should take around the same amount of time as translating 300 words) and then I would maybe come back in the future to let him do more complex work on my car.

No, but I would - and have - taken an old 4x4 to my local mechanic, already knowing what the problem was, and asked him what he thought. In this specific case he popped the hood and listened to the engine for a few seconds and diagnosed (correctly, I thought) that the fanbelt pulley bearing needed replacing.

That was enough to get him the job. He could have refused to give me his opinion, but he chose to go along. Now he gets all my business.

I agree that these free tests should not be paid unconditionally, nor should agencies demand them as their right, but I think there's room for free tests in the industry. (Well, clearly there is!)

Regards
Dan


 
jyuan_us
jyuan_us  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 07:21
Member (2005)
Chinese to English
When it comes to a free test, there are only 2 options, Feb 16, 2016

juanpablosans wrote:

Seriously, I am just asking how I could do to avoid situations in which I agencies asked you a free sample, and they don't respond anymore after receiving your test. I think that, at least by saying that, you are showing them your time is valuable and that you don't want to be doing free samples every time and you can agree on certain conditions if they want your time for free.

The other option I have found is to send them samples from previous projects and tell them: this is something I delivered this year! Please use it as a reference.

Cheers




Option 1: Doing it; Option 2: refusing to do it.

Anything in between is not realistic.


 
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