| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | Growing control of translation agencies Thread poster: Odile Breuvart
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Sheila Wilson 
Spain
Local time: 07:03
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| Can clients reject an invoice? | Mar 10, 2016 |
Annamaria Amik wrote:
I tell them I have to submit to Romanian laws, MY invoice has to contain the details the law applicable to ME requires. And because I would have to issue my own invoice anyway, I'd have to charge them extra for this administrative hassle which falls outside the scope of "reasonable".
I totally agree
They usually backed down at this point and accepted my invoice.
I don't believe a client can refuse to accept an invoice that's been made out accurately. If they commissioned you to do the work, and the invoice is for the work you've done, at the agreed rate etc., I think they just have to accept it and pay. I'm no lawyer but I think it works like that the world over. Things such as online systems are just internal administrative procedures.
| | | | Kevin Fulton
United States
Local time: 02:03
German to English
| My point is that payment portals are here to stay | Mar 10, 2016 |
An outsourcer (no matter the type – manufacturer or other) doesn't care about the vendor's national regulations regarding invoicing, as long their own local rules are met. These systems have the potential to produce a document that meets national requirements (antiquated requirements that invoices be signed are going the way of typewriters). I, for one, would be thrilled if my customer who requires different invoices for different services would move to a portal that would allow me to indicate... See more An outsourcer (no matter the type – manufacturer or other) doesn't care about the vendor's national regulations regarding invoicing, as long their own local rules are met. These systems have the potential to produce a document that meets national requirements (antiquated requirements that invoices be signed are going the way of typewriters). I, for one, would be thrilled if my customer who requires different invoices for different services would move to a portal that would allow me to indicate the type of service performed during data entry.
Requiring the use of an invoicing system is really not a form of abuse as many here have implied. There are worse forms of mistreatment like extended payment terms, missed payments or misrepresenting MT as a human product when hiring editors. As someone pointed out, a translator not willing to put up with a payment portal can be replaced. But this cuts both ways. There is no lack of agencies, many of which treat translators with respect. If you don't like the invoicing system, find another customer. Whining doesn't help. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Important steps before you start work | Mar 10, 2016 |
Sheila Wilson wrote:
I don't believe a client can refuse to accept an invoice that's been made out accurately. If they commissioned you to do the work, and the invoice is for the work you've done, at the agreed rate etc., I think they just have to accept it and pay. I'm no lawyer but I think it works like that the world over. Things such as online systems are just internal administrative procedures.
It's probably a good idea to tell your client in your terms and conditions (contract, order form) that they will receive an invoice from you and in which format it will be sent via email. It 's also a good idea to find out what needs to be put on your invoice with regard to the client's/agency's country. Have it confirmed by the client. All before you start your work for the client.
[Edited at 2016-03-10 15:56 GMT]
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:03
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Payment portals may be here to stay, but then so is cruelty to animals. Just because a thing is here to stay doesn't mean we all have to enthusiastically embrace it.
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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:03
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| Not for the tax authorities | Mar 10, 2016 |
Kevin Fulton wrote:
Hard copy (or electronic versions thereof) invoices are becoming a thing of the past
Not for the tax authorities. In the UK unless your business is VAT-registered (unlikely for translators who are sole traders) I think HMRC, the tax authority, will want to see your invoices in hard copy.
[Edited at 2016-03-10 16:40 GMT]
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 07:03
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| We don't all live in the same nation | Mar 10, 2016 |
Kevin Fulton wrote:
An outsourcer (no matter the type – manufacturer or other) doesn't care about the vendor's national regulations regarding invoicing, as long their own local rules are met. These systems have the potential to produce a document that meets national requirements (antiquated requirements that invoices be signed are going the way of typewriters)
Exactly - clients don't care about the requirements of the invoicer's tax regulations. In fact, they probably have no idea what they are. Therefore, they shouldn't meddle in the production of said invoice, which MUST comply with those regulations! Here in Spain hardcopy invoices and signatures are no longer needed, but certain other things that don't concern a foreign client ARE required. Many invoicing systems serve only to confuse a foreign supplier and double their administrative load.
| | | | | To make it a bit more complicated | Mar 10, 2016 |
Some agencies want you to send 1 invoice (on their system or not) for the total month.
I am working for several agencies, and to avoid confusion they all get the invoice at the end of each job!
[Edited at 2016-03-10 17:25 GMT]
| | | | Balasubramaniam L.
India
Local time: 11:33
Member (2006)
English to Hindi
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER | The problem with online invoicing | Mar 11, 2016 |
I don't mind online invoicing as it saves me too a lot of clerical work. But it does have a serious drawback - often I tend to forget what I have invoiced or when the payment is due, so follow up becomes difficult. With Translation Office generating my invoices on my desktop, I have an easily accessible resource to check when payments are due and when they are delayed.
Maybe, the online invoicing systems are still evolving and are still in a very primitive stage. They should add fea... See more I don't mind online invoicing as it saves me too a lot of clerical work. But it does have a serious drawback - often I tend to forget what I have invoiced or when the payment is due, so follow up becomes difficult. With Translation Office generating my invoices on my desktop, I have an easily accessible resource to check when payments are due and when they are delayed.
Maybe, the online invoicing systems are still evolving and are still in a very primitive stage. They should add features like SMS reminders or email reminders to invoicers about a week before payment, so that the functions I miss can be instituted in these systems. Or they should incorporate functions to link up with other online applications like Calendar for example, so that the invoice entry automatically gets added to my Calendar which also can be used by me to keep track of my invoices.
There are a million other ways to make these invoicing systems translator-friendly. Currently they have only got around to making them agency-friendly. Maybe the next generation invoicing systems would remedy that.
Or, conversely, Translation Office should look into the possibility of automatically adding online invoices to its system so that its users can have the best of both worlds.
[Edited at 2016-03-11 05:35 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:03
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| Still steam-powered | Mar 11, 2016 |
Balasubramaniam L. wrote:
I don't mind online invoicing as it saves me too a lot of clerical work.
I'm still on steam-powered paper-based book-keeping and I find it doesn't take up much time. Every month I do my invoices, record my income and outgoings, expenses,bank statements etc. all in one file with subdividers, following a system I've refined over many years and which is actually useful as a recap for myself of what I've been doing for the previous month. I've looked into book-keeping software and it looks like more hassle than it's worth - especially the monthly fees you have to pay! At the end of the Tax Year I do my tax return online, and since over the previous year I've been keeping my books in good order, this is a relatively simple process.
[Edited at 2016-03-11 08:00 GMT]
| | | | Erik Freitag
Germany
Local time: 08:03
Member (2006)
Dutch to German
+ ...
| Sending invoices is just part of any normal business | Mar 11, 2016 |
... at least in Europe.
By coincidence, I just stumbled across a forum post that may help to explain why some agencies think online invoicing is a good idea for everyone:
Quote from a recent forum post, I'll leave the author unnamed here (my emphasis):
I've never even sent an invoice because all the translations I've done have been through a translation service that takes care of the business side of things themselves.
I guess that quite a substantial number of translators are of this type - people who are just starting out or are doing translations as a side job (as opposed to translators running a business). Please mind that I'm not implying that this says anything about their translation skills, nor am I insinuating that translators who do like customer based online invoicing systems can't be serious translators.
I at least am running a business, and I'm not prepared to give "the business side of things" out of my hands, especially if this would mean extra work for me.
[Edited at 2016-03-11 10:32 GMT]
| | | | Balasubramaniam L.
India
Local time: 11:33
Member (2006)
English to Hindi
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER | Businesses are moving online | Mar 11, 2016 |
Erik Freitag wrote:
I at least am running a business, and I'm not prepared to give "the business side of things" out of my hands, especially if this would mean extra work for me.
What has laborious manual invoicing got to do with running a business? I always thought business meant making money in the most efficient manner in the least amount of time and with the least amount of effort.
I think with the coming of the internet many old fashioned business practices have fundamentally changed. I can understand though people's reluctance to give up old and familiar habits, even if giving them up can have the potential to save them money and time.
| | | | Balasubramaniam L.
India
Local time: 11:33
Member (2006)
English to Hindi
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER | Number-phobic people do exist | Mar 11, 2016 |
Tom in London wrote:
I'm still on steam-powered paper-based book-keeping and I find it doesn't take up much time.
You won't believe it, but I face problem remembering my own phone number or my date of birth or my PAN number. There do exist people in this world who really dread numbers of all hues and they are utterly incapable of handling their own accounts. Yet many of them run professional businesses, often with a liberal use of technology or through paying accountants through their nose.
You may be one of those gifted people for whom crunching numbers comes naturally, not for me, though. I struggle with numbers, and would on no account (was that a pun?) deal with them on my own.
[Edited at 2016-03-11 12:20 GMT]
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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:03
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Balasubramaniam L. wrote:
What has laborious manual invoicing got to do with running a business?
It isn't laborious, it's dead easy. Writing an invoice takes me about 3 minutes. But of course I don't really do it manually: skinning a calf, preparing my own vellum, making a quill pen, mixing up some ink, writing out the invoice in longhand, and taking it to the post office for dispatch by horse-driven coach. No: I use a thing called a "computer" and deliver it with a clever trick called "electronic mail". So I suppose I'm cheating.
[Edited at 2016-03-11 12:38 GMT]
| | | | Balasubramaniam L.
India
Local time: 11:33
Member (2006)
English to Hindi
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER
Tom in London wrote:
... But of course I don't really do it manually: skinning a calf, preparing my own vellum, making a quill pen, mixing up some ink, writing out the invoice in longhand, and taking it to the post office for dispatch by horse-driven coach...
I doubt if there were post offices in the times when you had to skin a calf and prepare your own quill pen and ink to do a little bit of writing (in longhand!). Pigeons, yes, horse relay post delivery, yes.
| | | | Erik Freitag
Germany
Local time: 08:03
Member (2006)
Dutch to German
+ ...
| Neither laborious, nor manual | Mar 11, 2016 |
Balasubramaniam L. wrote: Erik Freitag wrote:
I at least am running a business, and I'm not prepared to give "the business side of things" out of my hands, especially if this would mean extra work for me.
What has laborious manual invoicing got to do with running a business? I always thought business meant making money in the most efficient manner in the least amount of time and with the least amount of effort. (...) You may be one of those gifted people for whom crunching numbers comes naturally, not for me, though. I struggle with numbers, and would on no account (was that a pun?) deal with them on my own.
In my case, creating invoices is neither laborious, nor manual. I'm not particularly good at "number crunching", but I don't need to in order to create an invoice. In the time I need to create a monthly invoice for 10 jobs I've done during that month, you will still be entering your password to log into your client's online portal.
My point is - the need to keeping books is part of what distinguishes an employee from a one-person business. Many freelance translators (partly) operate with the mindset of an employee, and for them, getting rid of the need to create invoices may seem very attractive. To me, it isn't.
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