| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | How much more of personal data? Thread poster: Inga Petkelyte
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Inga Petkelyte 
Portugal
Local time: 22:34
Lithuanian to Portuguese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Must be not easy | Apr 14, 2016 |
Maria S. Loose, LL.M. wrote:
I honestly don't know the answer to your questions. This legislation is very new and we'll have to see how it's going to be applied. Stating the names of the subcontractors when submitting offers is also aimed at preventing a later replacement of such subcontractors during contract performance. Let's wait and see how the situation will develop.
It must be not easy for you here, Maria.
I only think that the EU, instead of an attempt to control the situation at a dual level would do a better job by contracting freelancers directly, by letting translators to prove their abilities through a test, or a series of tests. At the moment, I don't see a way how the EU could enforce what they are stating.
| | | | Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:34
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| It can be done, supposedly | Apr 14, 2016 |
Inga Petkelyte wrote:
I only think that the EU, instead of an attempt to control the situation at a dual level would do a better job by contracting freelancers directly
Maria has been a vocal proponent of freelancers dealing directly with the EU and has more than once, on this forum, described how it should be done. A forum search should bring up the details. I doubt that getting to work with the EU is easy, but is it ever easy to find and keep good clients?
I must say that while I have deep personal misgivings about the structure and politics of the EU, in this particular instance, its institutions do seem to be be working hard to make better use of the taxpayer's money. By which I mean that they are trying to ensure that the service they pay for (translation by properly qualified translators) is the one that is actually delivered.
Looking beyond that, the EU institutions do not have - nor should they have - a mandate to protect freelancers or make their life easier.
Regards
Dan
| | | | | Thank you, Dan | Apr 14, 2016 |
for your kind words. As I have said before, neither the EU institutions nor any other national or international public authority is allowed to discriminate between natural and legal persons. The only thing that the EU institutions can do is to split tendering procedures into individual language combinations (= lots) so that natural persons and SMEs stand a chance to participate. And as I have said before, a lot of individual translators do have framework contracts with the EU. A lot of them are ... See more for your kind words. As I have said before, neither the EU institutions nor any other national or international public authority is allowed to discriminate between natural and legal persons. The only thing that the EU institutions can do is to split tendering procedures into individual language combinations (= lots) so that natural persons and SMEs stand a chance to participate. And as I have said before, a lot of individual translators do have framework contracts with the EU. A lot of them are from Germany although the rules are the same for each Member State. So again, all I can do is to encourage you to apply directly. In a way, I don't understand all these complaints about low rates if people are not willing to make an effort to get direct clients. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Inga Petkelyte
Portugal
Local time: 22:34
Lithuanian to Portuguese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Dan Lucas wrote:
Maria has been a vocal proponent of freelancers dealing directly with the EU and has more than once, on this forum, described how it should be done. A forum search should bring up the details. I doubt that getting to work with the EU is easy, but is it ever easy to find and keep good clients?
I must say that while I have deep personal misgivings about the structure and politics of the EU, in this particular instance, its institutions do seem to be be working hard to make better use of the taxpayer's money. By which I mean that they are trying to ensure that the service they pay for (translation by properly qualified translators) is the one that is actually delivered.
Looking beyond that, the EU institutions do not have - nor should they have - a mandate to protect freelancers or make their life easier.
Regards
Dan
Dan, let me ask you - in how many EU translation projects have you participated?
Your insider experience would be interseting.
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Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:34
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| No insider experience | Apr 14, 2016 |
Inga Petkelyte wrote:
Dan, let me ask you - in how many EU translation projects have you participated?
Your insider experience would be interseting.
Inga, I cannot and do not claim insider experience.
I have never worked with an EU institution, largely because (based on the brief investigation I undertook last year) there seems to be very little demand within those organisations for Japanese-English translation. I would consider applying directly if I thought there was steady work available.
Maria, however, is about as insider as one can get, so I listen to her. Although I have never met her in person I believe that I see a pattern of underlying consistency and reasonableness to her posts her on ProZ.
Accordingly, I am minded to assign more weight to her statements with regard to EU institutions than to statements made by most other people.
Regards
Dan
| | | | Inga Petkelyte
Portugal
Local time: 22:34
Lithuanian to Portuguese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Audiatur et altera pars | Apr 14, 2016 |
Dan Lucas wrote:
Inga, I cannot and do not claim insider experience.
I have never worked with an EU institution, largely because (based on the brief investigation I undertook last year) there seems to be very little demand within those organisations for Japanese-English translation. I would consider applying directly if I thought there was steady work available.
Maria, however, is about as insider as one can get, so I listen to her. Although I have never met her in person I believe that I see a pattern of underlying consistency and reasonableness to her posts her on ProZ.
Accordingly, I am minded to assign more weight to her statements with regard to EU institutions than to statements made by most other people.
Regards
Dan
Dan, should we be sittting at a table together, I would say all this differently.
But here, I will give a couple other questions, for your own thinking, before suggesting other translators to keep their opinions for themselves:
why, do you think, so many good, experienced translators don't even bother to participate in EU tenders?
why do good and experienced translators not trust the EU procedures nor the EU declarations about the intentions to protect translators' interests?
why, do you think, even a joke about a bridge for sale appeared on this thread?
Maria has been doing a tremendous job here, with all negative experiences of others projected on her (this is why I imgaine it must be not easy here), but spare me and many others, Dan:
if the EU claims the intentions to protect us but has no idea how to do that and therefore, demands very personal data, then sorry, we can listen to suggestions but not necessarily agree with them. Some of us do have an insider experience to some degree and see how it works, or doesn.t, in practice.
Audiatur et altera pars, it's a very bad habbit to judge based one one side's opinion.
A cross-perspective would bring you more light and following your own suggestion to read forums before expressing would give you an idea there is no consensus on how the selection procedures should be conducted. Some of us do have an insider experience to some degree and see how all that works, or doesn't, in practice.
(Sorry for not being delicate, not today, your suggestion to shut up, in a nice form, was little delicate either, still I'm sorry.
Oh, I miss a possibility to sit, all of us, around the table and talk eye to eye, openly and honestly, to avoid our moods etc. interfere with the reading!.. So much more we could discuss and understand different positions better!..)
| | | | Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:34
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| Not all voices are equally persuasive | Apr 14, 2016 |
Inga Petkelyte wrote:
why do good and experienced translators not trust the EU procedures nor the EU declarations about the intentions to protect translators' interests?
I don't know. Maybe they're cynical, or mistaken, or simply not as well informed as they think? The problem is that I have to make a judgement on who to believe or who to trust. I'm not telling anybody to shut up, just pointing out that some people are more credible than others in certain areas.
In this case, Maria strikes me as a very credible figure. When it comes to her discussions of EU translation policy I can pick one of roughly four options.
1) She is not telling what she believes to be the truth, and she is ignorant
2) She is telling what she believes to be the truth, but she is ignorant
3) She is not telling what she believes to be the truth, but she is well-informed
4) She is telling what she believes to be the truth, and she is well-informed
I have no reason to think Maria is not telling the truth. Given that she's a qualified lawyer with long experience in translation, within EU institutions, and remains employed by the Council of Europe, I have no reason to think she is not well-informed.
For those reasons option 4 above makes the most sense to me. Accordingly I accept Maria's version of what the EU institutions are trying to do with regards to translation.
No system achieves its aims 100% - incompetence, laziness, corruption and nepotism are problems in most walks of life - but the EU's aims, as described by Maria, seem clear. Why should I choose anybody else's version over Maria's version?
But just to clarify, I don't think it's the EU's job to protect translators' interests (no more than the interests of any other people) and I'm pretty sure that the EU does not claim to be protecting translators' interests, at least not officially.
As I see it, the EU wants to get what it pays for when it orders a service - whether that be plumbing, catering or accounting - and this initiative seems to be aimed at making sure they get that in translation. The pleasing but unintended side-effect, if you want to call it that, is better working conditions for freelancers.
And yes, no doubt if we were sitting face-to-face over a bottle of vinho verde we'd communicate with more clarity and nuance than we can here on the Internet.
Regards
Dan
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