| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Malicious time-wasting by a PM? Thread poster: Robert Forstag
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Robert Forstag 
United States
Local time: 13:07
Spanish to English
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TOPIC STARTER | Getting back to the original question I posted... | Apr 19, 2016 |
Thanks to all who have responded thus far.
Yet no one has directly responded to the (elliptical) question in the header of my original post.
To state the question clearly and completely in terms of what I believe to have been the case in the example I've cited:
Do you consider it malicious practice for a Project Manager to contact a Vendor in a personally addressed e-mail knowing full well that the minimum price offered by said Vendor will not be low enough... See more Thanks to all who have responded thus far.
Yet no one has directly responded to the (elliptical) question in the header of my original post.
To state the question clearly and completely in terms of what I believe to have been the case in the example I've cited:
Do you consider it malicious practice for a Project Manager to contact a Vendor in a personally addressed e-mail knowing full well that the minimum price offered by said Vendor will not be low enough to assign the project to him or her?
I myself would characterize such conduct as malicious and unethical, for reasons that I explained in my original post.
[Edited at 2016-04-19 17:30 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Edward Potter
Spain
Local time: 19:07
Member (2003)
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Does the name end with a | Apr 19, 2016 |
philgoddard wrote:
T?
[Edited at 2016-04-19 16:56 GMT]
T?
| | | | Jessica Noyes
United States
Local time: 13:07
Member
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Not malicious | Apr 19, 2016 |
"Malicious" implies to me that the PM is behaving as she does with the intent to harm you. Unless you have done something to incur her wrath, I really doubt that she is taking time and effort just to annoy you purposefully.
I would chalk her behavior up to self-interest---whatever she deems most convenient for, or beneficial to, her is what she will do. Note that by ignoring and dissing you, she is hurting the company as well, but I imagine she doesn't care a whit about the company either... See more "Malicious" implies to me that the PM is behaving as she does with the intent to harm you. Unless you have done something to incur her wrath, I really doubt that she is taking time and effort just to annoy you purposefully.
I would chalk her behavior up to self-interest---whatever she deems most convenient for, or beneficial to, her is what she will do. Note that by ignoring and dissing you, she is hurting the company as well, but I imagine she doesn't care a whit about the company either.
Take a look at the glassdoor.com review site to see that this "perfect" company receives a 2.7/5. rating from its employees. This negative energy from the top is just flowing down through your contact person.
Once that company and I parted ways, it took me a few months to fill up my schedule again with reasonable, non-harassing clients. I am much less anxious now and less chained to my laptop. It is music to my ears to hear, "When can you have it?" ▲ Collapse
| | | | Edward Potter
Spain
Local time: 19:07
Member (2003)
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Probably not malicious | Apr 19, 2016 |
Robert Forstag wrote:
Do you consider it malicious practice for a Project Manager to contact a Vendor in a personally addressed e-mail knowing full well that the minimum price offered by said Vendor will not be low enough to assign the project to him or her?
[Edited at 2016-04-19 17:30 GMT]
It's a tightrope you have to walk. You accept jobs from them on a regular basis, so they know they can cut a deal with you. They would like you to accept lower rates, and so they will constantly attempt this. Why? Well, probably because the PMs are inexperienced, low paid and instructed to haggle.
Basically, they are throwing spaghetti at the wall hoping that some will stick. You are doing business with them and choose keep your name on their "spam list". The annoying interaction, which doesn't have to be annoying, is the price you have to pay for doing business with this agency.
Such is life as a translator.
[Edited at 2016-04-19 18:20 GMT]
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Jo Macdonald
Spain
Local time: 19:07
Italian to English
+ ...
| Not malicious imo | Apr 19, 2016 |
Hi Robert
I was in the same sort of situation until I increased my rates and they stopped hassling me.
| | | | LEXpert
United States
Local time: 12:07
Member (2008)
Croatian to English
+ ...
| Malicious perhaps a stretch | Apr 19, 2016 |
Robert Forstag wrote:
Do you consider it malicious practice for a Project Manager to contact a Vendor in a personally addressed e-mail knowing full well that the minimum price offered by said Vendor will not be low enough to assign the project to him or her.
[Edited at 2016-04-19 17:30 GMT]
I have always assumed that these e-mails are generated by email-merge software that automatically inserts your first name but blasts a personalized e-mail to everybody on the specified list. Presumably they could filter by minimum rate, but they always hope that the translator will be desperate or bored enough to accept it just this one time.
I'd draw the line somewhere before malicious (as that would imply an intent to waste your time in and of itself), and call it inconsiderate. Is it dishonest? Well, sure it says Dear Yourname - but so does all junk mail I get, but I don't for a minute think it's intended for me personally. That's kind of how I look at - junk mail, which goes right into the trash.
| | | | Robert Forstag
United States
Local time: 13:07
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | I see your point, but... | Apr 19, 2016 |
Rudolf Vedo CT wrote: Robert Forstag wrote:
Do you consider it malicious practice for a Project Manager to contact a Vendor in a personally addressed e-mail knowing full well that the minimum price offered by said Vendor will not be low enough to assign the project to him or her.
[Edited at 2016-04-19 17:30 GMT] I have always assumed that these e-mails are generated by email-merge software that automatically inserts your first name but blasts a personalized e-mail to everybody on the specified list. Presumably they could filter by minimum rate, but they always hope that the translator will be desperate or bored enough to accept it just this one time. I'd draw the line somewhere before malicious (as that would imply an intent to waste your time in and of itself), and call it inconsiderate. Is it dishonest? Well, sure it says Dear Yourname - but so does all junk mail I get, but I don't for a minute think it's intended for me personally. That's kind of how I look at - junk mail, which goes right into the trash.
Hi Rudolf,
I see your point, but I think it a reasonable ethical standard to operate under the assumption that an e-mail personally addressed to a freelance translator that is not clearly part of a mass mail has taken into account said translator's minimum acceptable rate. This should be part of some set of ethical guidelines that agencies subscribe and adhere to. I would hope that the corporate members of this site are required to abide by such a practice. Is this case? If it isn't, then it should be....
I also see an e-mail personally addressed to me requesting an offer for work on a project as implying a good-faith intention to consider and possibly accept any offer that I make, especially after I have set everything aside to access and review the source file(s) and respond to the solicitation.
This context takes the solicitation mails under discussion here out of the realm of the advertising correspondence you refer to.
All in all, I think that it would be a good deal more honest if the agency I'm referencing here simply did ONLY mass mailings. After all, an e-mail addressed "Hi all" followed by "apologies for the mass mailing" makes it clear that there is no personal effort to engage the recipient, and that the job will go to the lowest bidder....
I hope that I've clearly made my point.
[Edited at 2016-04-19 18:12 GMT]
| | | | Radian Yazynin
Local time: 20:07
Member (2004)
English to Russian
+ ...
| No one is guilty and still there is someone who is suffering | Apr 19, 2016 |
Robert, if you put your question that way, I support you. Especially after I was in a similar situation. We may endlessly talk about inexperienced PMs, other shortcomings of a disproportionately expanding agency. It's all abnormal, rather from a moral point of view. But who cares about that? Do you want to change something in that system, apart from having your say?
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Edward Potter
Spain
Local time: 19:07
Member (2003)
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Inefficiency | Apr 19, 2016 |
Robert Forstag wrote:
...I think it a reasonable ethical standard to operate under the assumption that an e-mail personally addressed to a freelance translator that is not clearly part of a mass mail has taken into account said translator's minimum acceptable rate.
[Edited at 2016-04-19 18:12 GMT]
Most definitely. It would save everyone a lot of time if they had their mailing lists set up by rate.
| | | | Radian Yazynin
Local time: 20:07
Member (2004)
English to Russian
+ ...
| Well organized or not? | Apr 19, 2016 |
Edward Potter wrote:
It would save everyone a lot of time if they had their mailing lists set up by rate.
Practically in all similar cases we talk about poor business processes, rather than about any abuse, I dare say, so blaming someone (PMs, not decision-makers) for inappropriate treatment is just a waste of time.
| | | | Kristina Cosumano (X)
Germany
Local time: 19:07
German to English
| Your assumption is surely correct | Apr 19, 2016 |
Rudolf Vedo CT wrote:
I have always assumed that these e-mails are generated by email-merge software that automatically inserts your first name but blasts a personalized e-mail to everybody on the specified list. Presumably they could filter by minimum rate, but they always hope that the translator will be desperate or bored enough to accept it just this one time.
I did some work with a big agency once (not the one here), and along with all the other information I had to give them, they wanted to know how I wanted to be addressed. I believe the default choice was "Hi Kristina," and that is exactly how their e-mails to me began, no matter which PM was writing. I assume the PMs there don't ever write salutations, but that they're automatically generated.
| | | | Kay Denney
France
Local time: 19:07
French to English
Kristina Cosumano wrote: Rudolf Vedo CT wrote:
I have always assumed that these e-mails are generated by email-merge software that automatically inserts your first name but blasts a personalized e-mail to everybody on the specified list. Presumably they could filter by minimum rate, but they always hope that the translator will be desperate or bored enough to accept it just this one time.
I did some work with a big agency once (not the one here), and along with all the other information I had to give them, they wanted to know how I wanted to be addressed. I believe the default choice was "Hi Kristina," and that is exactly how their e-mails to me began, no matter which PM was writing. I assume the PMs there don't ever write salutations, but that they're automatically generated.
please tell me which company so I can apply and ask to be called SpecialSnowflake and see what happens
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Robert Forstag
United States
Local time: 13:07
Spanish to English
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TOPIC STARTER | The arrangement has "worked" for several years | Apr 20, 2016 |
Edward Potter wrote: Robert Forstag wrote:
Do you consider it malicious practice for a Project Manager to contact a Vendor in a personally addressed e-mail knowing full well that the minimum price offered by said Vendor will not be low enough to assign the project to him or her?
[Edited at 2016-04-19 17:30 GMT] It's a tightrope you have to walk. You accept jobs from them on a regular basis, so they know they can cut a deal with you. They would like you to accept lower rates, and so they will constantly attempt this. Why? Well, probably because the PMs are inexperienced, low paid and instructed to haggle. Basically, they are throwing spaghetti at the wall hoping that some will stick. You are doing business with them and choose keep your name on their "spam list". The annoying interaction, which doesn't have to be annoying, is the price you have to pay for doing business with this agency. Such is life as a translator. [Edited at 2016-04-19 18:20 GMT]
There has always been a certain amount of frustration involved in dealing with these people, but it is an arrangement that has generally worked for me over the past three years. By "working" I mean yielding significant income involving an hourly rate that I think most US-based translators working in my language pair would consider "good."
I of course have had to set certain limits to make this arrangement workable. This includes the 10-minute response limit mentioned in my previous posts, declining (or simply not responding) to solicitations that involve unprofitably small jobs or otherwise unattractive work; terminating contact with certain individual PMs; and calling PMs out when they have crossed the line in terms of wasting my time (as I did in this case).
What has *changed* in my relationship with this agency (as I noted in my original post) is that almost everything sent me is now channeled through one PM, and the proportion between assigned jobs and e-mails soliciting offers has dramatically decreased.
It is these changes that do not bode well for the future.
| | | | Arianne Farah
Canada
Local time: 13:07
Member (2008)
English to French
Edward Potter wrote: philgoddard wrote:
T?
[Edited at 2016-04-19 16:56 GMT] T?
It's been well over 5 years since I dealt with that particular agency - they were great when I was new to the game and needed some volume to fill up my days, and we politely parted ways over a few years as I upped my rates, but it immediately came to mind when I read the OP's post Some things never change I guess.
To answer the OP's question - I don't think it's malicious... I think it's institutionalized
| | | | Robert Forstag
United States
Local time: 13:07
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Radian Yazynin wrote: A typical problem of large agencies further developing their "marketing strategy". The larger they grow (or ...) the more is the distance between freelancers and PMs and your ways part. In this respect the SME sector is the area where interpersonal attitudes have remained stronger. If you still wish to keep the relations set up an automatic reply with your "best rate" multiplied by their suggested word count or the like. The one which would trigger automatic reply immediately based on your PM's name. Kind of a filter and an adequate response to their advanced communication methods. At least with a right to "further discuss the details" in case they reply with agreement
What occurs to me as a practical application of your idea here is setting up a template that indicates the "usual conditions" applying to my dealings with this PM and agency (namely, that I need confirmation of acceptance within 10 minutes, that rate is non-negotiable, etc.). I would then simply add a sentence indicating the rate I am willing to work for on the particular project in question.
Do you (or does anyone else) happen to know if it is possible to set up such a response template in Yahoo Mail?
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