| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | Huge translation company Thread poster: Bruno Depascale
|
|---|
| That must be a strategy with some agencies ... | Apr 20, 2016 |
if a translator can be pushed to jump through several hoops, then they can be pushed on the rate as well.
Some time ago I decided not to do any translation tests unless the rate was agreed, nevertheless, there still seems to be one agency (Dutch) who have agreed to my rates, I did the test and then found out that they operate a system where translators bid for jobs. I receive at least five e-mails per day from them, but not very often get anything at my price (except a horrible PDF-... See more if a translator can be pushed to jump through several hoops, then they can be pushed on the rate as well.
Some time ago I decided not to do any translation tests unless the rate was agreed, nevertheless, there still seems to be one agency (Dutch) who have agreed to my rates, I did the test and then found out that they operate a system where translators bid for jobs. I receive at least five e-mails per day from them, but not very often get anything at my price (except a horrible PDF-conversion on a Friday afternoon) ... I think that system is designed so that translators bid lower and lower. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Doan Quang 
Vietnam
Local time: 18:05
Member
English to Vietnamese
Gabriele Demuth wrote:
if a translator can be pushed to jump through several hoops, then they can be pushed on the rate as well.
Some time ago I decided not to do any translation tests unless the rate was agreed, nevertheless, there still seems to be one agency (Dutch) who have agreed to my rates, I did the test and then found out that they operate a system where translators bid for jobs. I receive at least five e-mails per day from them, but not very often get anything at my price (except a horrible PDF-conversion on a Friday afternoon) ... I think that system is designed so that translators bid lower and lower.
I have the same issues with some of 'famous' agencies here on Proz, the rates had been agreed before I passed the test and signed off the agreement.
I receive a lot of emails from them requesting me to place competitive offers on their own platform and wishing me Good Luck at the end of emails.
| | | | Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:05
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| Unfair in a Utopia, quite normal in the real world | Apr 20, 2016 |
Bruno Depascale wrote:
They surely charge their clients (at least) 0,20 usd per source word and they "offer" to translators (a maximum of) 0,07 usd. This is simply unfair from my point of view, irrespective of your country of residence.
Why? If you sell your work at such a low rate, but they have a client who will buy at a higher rate, why is it unfair?
Translation is almost completely unregulated. There is nothing stopping you from setting up your own company and finding that client if you wish. If you don't wish to do that, but if you don't want to accept 0.07 USD, then just walk away.
To be honest Bruno, given that you've been in this industry for many years you should have checked the forum, the Blue Board and other payment practice sites before you started talking to them. I've been freelancing for a shorter time than yourself and even I have realised that the big companies are rubbish to deal with.
Dan
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 13:05
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Bruno Depascale wrote:
Robert said that this lower rate concerned only a particular client of them (a pharmaceutical company based in the USA) and the rate was in US dollars instead of UK sterling. My questions is: why a USA pharmaceutical company should contact a translation agency based in the UK and pay in US dollars?
In the global village, it is perfectly normal for e.g. US clients to outsource their translation needs to e.g. a UK agency and to pay in e.g. USD instead of GBP. In fact, this exact thing happens with one of my US clients (at their UK branch) and their US end-client (incidentally also pharmaceutical). And yes, with one of my larger clients, the EU branches always offer rates that are 50% lower than that of the US branches (and I always bid higher, and I sometimes win the job).
| | |
|
|
|
I agree with Terry.
They made you deliberately invest time in order to make you lower your rate.
I never agree on anything like that - either the time invested is paid or I refuse.
[Modifié le 2016-04-20 18:45 GMT]
| | | | Bruno Depascale
Italy
Local time: 13:05
Member (2009)
English to Italian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | can I make a blue-bord entry? | Apr 20, 2016 |
I have been contacted privately by many colleagues which have had the same experience with this company. Can I make a blue board entry in order to warn other colleagues from wasting their time (and money)?
| | | | Bruno Depascale
Italy
Local time: 13:05
Member (2009)
English to Italian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | I just refused Dan | Apr 20, 2016 |
Dan Lucas wrote: Bruno Depascale wrote:
They surely charge their clients (at least) 0,20 usd per source word and they "offer" to translators (a maximum of) 0,07 usd. This is simply unfair from my point of view, irrespective of your country of residence. Why? If you sell your work at such a low rate, but they have a client who will buy at a higher rate, why is it unfair? Translation is almost completely unregulated. There is nothing stopping you from setting up your own company and finding that client if you wish. If you don't wish to do that, but if you don't want to accept 0.07 USD, then just walk away. Dan
Hi Dan,
you have misunderstood my post. I never accepted such rate.
I clearly said that we agreed on a price (0,12 usd), and then a second PM offered me a lower one (0,07 usd), after having spent hours on watching tutorials and signing and scanning agreements..Obviously, I refused his (only) offer.
| | | | | Only if you've actually worked for them | Apr 20, 2016 |
Bruno Depascale wrote:
I have been contacted privately by many colleagues which have had the same experience with this company. Can I make a blue board entry in order to warn other colleagues from wasting their time (and money)?
Bruno, it would be good if there was some way translators could warn others about this kind of time-wasting procedure by agencies but, unfortunately, you can't make a Blue Board entry unless you've actually worked for the agency concerned.
| | |
|
|
|
Alice Crisan
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:05
English to Romanian
+ ...
| entry based on collaboration | Apr 20, 2016 |
Bruno, you have a kind of collaboration with this agency, you started some business with them, I guess you can make an entry based on this experience. It's not about money, indeed, it's not
always about money, the experience we have in view but also the way they approach us. Besides that you made a big favour to them, they have you in their data base, they can use your details wherever it suits them.
Nowadays its not only the expertise we need but also we need to develop a kind of d... See more Bruno, you have a kind of collaboration with this agency, you started some business with them, I guess you can make an entry based on this experience. It's not about money, indeed, it's not
always about money, the experience we have in view but also the way they approach us. Besides that you made a big favour to them, they have you in their data base, they can use your details wherever it suits them.
Nowadays its not only the expertise we need but also we need to develop a kind of detective skills.
[Edited at 2016-04-20 21:32 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | You need to accept and deliver at least one job... | Apr 20, 2016 |
Even the tiniest job counts. And voila! You can rate them on the BB. I am afraid that's the only way. Otherwise you can't make a BB entry.
| | | | Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:05
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| Unfairness implies powerlessness | Apr 21, 2016 |
you have misunderstood my post. I never accepted such rate.
I understand that bit. I am saying that you have a choice to accept or not to accept and you chose (wisely) to walk away. To me "fair" and "unfair" have connotations of powerlessness, but in this case nobody was being forced to do anything they don't want to do. I don't see where the unfairness occurs.
Consider that many people may think the tax system is "unfair" because they perceive taxes to be used for purposes of which they disapprove (weapons, welfare, corporate tax breaks), or because they perceive that taxes have a negative effect on the wrong people (the poor or maybe the rich).
The key point is that there is very little that most people can do to avoid taxation by their governments, hence the old saw about the only two sure things in life being death and taxes. In effect you don't get a choice about tax, therefore it's "unfair". It's like a child telling a parent that something the parent has done is "not fair".
This may appear to be semantics but it's a fundamental issue. For good or for bad, translation is a very lightly regulated market and in many countries it is not regulated at all. The problem therefore is not that we as professional translators don't have choices, but that we are not exercising those choices properly.
If freelancers exercised their right to say no more effectively, companies like the large one you describe would probably not exist in their current form and median rates would, arguably, be higher. Freelancers don't say no enough because they they are weak-willed, or uninformed, or simply don't understand how business relationships work.
Changing the terms in which we discuss the industry is a step towards changing the mindset of freelance translators. Terms such as "fair" and "unfair" should be used in extraordinary circumstances, if they're used at all. Let's avoid them.
Regards
Dan
| | | | Bruno Depascale
Italy
Local time: 13:05
Member (2009)
English to Italian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | can we call it deceiving behavior? | Apr 21, 2016 |
[quote]Dan Lucas wrote:
This may appear to be semantics but it's a fundamental issue. For good or for bad, translation is a very lightly regulated market and in many countries it is not regulated at all. The problem therefore is not that we as professional translators don't have choices, but that we are not exercising those choices properly.
If freelancers exercised their right to say no more effectively, companies like the large one you describe would probably not exist in their current form and median rates would, arguably, be higher. Freelancers don't say no enough because they they are weak-willed, or uninformed, or simply don't understand how business relationships work.
I agreed with you Dan,
but I am not talking only about rates here. It is the entire process designed to deceive translators that bothers me. I've been working as freelance translator for many years and thanks to Proz I have always managed to avoid bad companies and all of my clients always paid my work (although late sometimes). If an Indian or Chinese or African company contacts me I know that I must check their reputation carefully. But here I have been contacted by a multinational translation agency that accepted upfront my reasonable rate (0,12 usd). However, only in the course of registration process I realized that there was something wrong with them. I could watch hours of useless tutorials and sign dozens of papers, but then I expect a fair treatment from them.
Instead, like many other translation agencies nowadays, they have adopted a overly complicated approach aimed at discrediting our profession.
| | |
|
|
|
Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:05
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| Certainly borderline deceptive and to be deplored | Apr 21, 2016 |
Bruno Depascale wrote:
But here I have been contacted by a multinational translation agency that accepted upfront my reasonable rate (0,12 usd).
I agree that the agency's bait-and-switch approach to registering freelancers is to be deplored. It's exactly the kind of thing that gives large agencies a bad name, as frequently discussed here on ProZ.
And your thread will hopefully be beneficial in that freelancers who do their homework will find it and realise that the big multinational agencies often - I'm sure there are exceptions - turn out to be partners who demand too much relative to the scant rewards on offer.
Instead, like many other translation agencies nowadays, they have adopted a overly complicated approach aimed at discrediting our profession.
No, I guarantee that at heart their approach is aimed at maximising their profits. Whether the profession suffers collateral damage is not their concern.
I don't think the average employee at such agencies is inclined to worry about the profession and indeed, even if they are so inclined, is probably under too much pressure to act on that thought. I've worked for some large corporations and they drive you very hard.
Companies are powerful and sometimes problematical because modern corporate structure is very good at incentivising behaviour that may not be beneficial to the company, the profession or indeed society over the longer run.
Regards
Dan
[Edited at 2016-04-21 08:35 GMT]
| | | | | The CAT tool is where I stop | Apr 21, 2016 |
... Especially if you have to pay for it.
I never did get round to working for the agency that wants you to pay for their CAT tool. I was asked to sign a horrendous NDA when they started collaborating with one of my other, smaller clients, and I refused.
Luckily I was still dealing with the small agency who knew me, and we dealt with the problem, but since then I have only ever received 'dead' PDFs from them. They still exist, but I sometimes wonder if they have sold t... See more ... Especially if you have to pay for it.
I never did get round to working for the agency that wants you to pay for their CAT tool. I was asked to sign a horrendous NDA when they started collaborating with one of my other, smaller clients, and I refused.
Luckily I was still dealing with the small agency who knew me, and we dealt with the problem, but since then I have only ever received 'dead' PDFs from them. They still exist, but I sometimes wonder if they have sold their soul.
Unfortunately I know of several originally pleasant, helpful agencies who have either grown too big or been swallowed up by the giants. I have 'fired' a couple, and I have simply never worked for at least two others who tried to recruit me.
We need to educate clients to appreciate that the medium to small, specialist agencies offer them a better deal. They do not need huge offices, and can keep administrative costs down, so for the same rate to end clients they can pay translators a better rate.
I think many small agencies really provide a better service - they attract experienced, well-qualified PMs and give them the freedom to deal intelligently with questions and issues before they become problems. Often PMs in the big agencies are not qualified, or their hands are tied.
Of course, the helpful agencies attract the best translators too - once they are in a position to choose clients.
I send feedback if I am not satisfied with the way an agency works - their portal, the login etc. must function instantly and not waste my time demanding password updates every time I try to log in... or if they have a time-consuming invoicing procedure, whatever. I send it to someone higher up the chain, because that sort of thing is not the PM's fault and they can't do anything about it.
I also send positive feedback if I can, though that tends to go straight to the PM.
We really need to stand together on this sort of thing - if you accept agencies' terms, they think they are OK, and if enough people just accept them, then the terms are hard to change.
The smaller agencies are often ready to listen to suggestions. The widely-used Plunet portal, for instance, can be set up so that it is streamlined and saves time for them AND the translator. The invoices CAN be set up to comply with different tax authorities' requirements, and then it is a help. (One of my favourite clients uses it like that after asking translators what they thought and complying with requests.)
It can also be set up to drive translators mad, and I have mailed a couple of clients explaining that I will not use their Plunet portal, or that I will charge for an extra half hour on my invoice. I then answer all job offers with 'sorry, I don't have time to hassle with your Plunet portal'.
I don't know how to 'educate' end clients, but we owe it to ourselves and our colleagues to act like independent agents and value our time. We must resist the behemoths, or at least make them pay us realistically.
And I haven't even started on reviewing and QA ....
OK, rant over - back to work for my long-standing, small and absolutely super agency client. (And she handles big international end-clients, public authorities and global leaders just the way they like. She pays translators Scandinavian rates too!)
 ▲ Collapse
| | | | | To warn you colleagues | Apr 21, 2016 |
Jenny Forbes wrote: Bruno Depascale wrote:
I have been contacted privately by many colleagues which have had the same experience with this company. Can I make a blue board entry in order to warn other colleagues from wasting their time (and money)? Bruno, it would be good if there was some way translators could warn others about this kind of time-wasting procedure by agencies but, unfortunately, you can't make a Blue Board entry unless you've actually worked for the agency concerned.
I do not know how the BB works, but if you cannot make an entry if you haven't worked for them, then you have other options. There are many groups, lists and forums translators use to exchange information like rates, warnings, advice, scammers' procedures, agencies blacklists, and so on. Share this information everywhere you can and describe your experience, and surely others will comment and describe their own experiences with the same company. This will be very useful to warn as many colleagues as possible. They deserve to be exposed and translators need to be aware of it to avoid wasting their precious time, or at least to waste it consciously.
[Edited at 2016-04-21 20:31 GMT]
| | | | | Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Huge translation company | CafeTran Espresso | You've never met a CAT tool this clever!
Translate faster & easier, using a sophisticated CAT tool built by a translator / developer.
Accept jobs from clients who use Trados, MemoQ, Wordfast & major CAT tools.
Download and start using CafeTran Espresso -- for free
Buy now! » |
| | Wordfast Pro | Translation Memory Software for Any Platform
Exclusive discount for ProZ.com users!
Save over 13% when purchasing Wordfast Pro through ProZ.com. Wordfast is the world's #1 provider of platform-independent Translation Memory software. Consistently ranked the most user-friendly and highest value
Buy now! » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
Translation news
