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America's translation rate appears to be .21 per word / ATA bans rate discussions
Thread poster: Jeff Whittaker
Samuel Murray
Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 17:17
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
@Łukasz May 4, 2016

Łukasz Gos-Furmankiewicz wrote:
Samuel Murray wrote:
If we assume that these are the same rates as they charge all clients, then the rates they pay me is 30-40% of what they charge their clients, which seems fair to me.

Do they provide QA/QC within that margin or do they just resell your stuff?


Extensive QA.

The Slator article claims that none of the agencies mention things like CAT tools or machine translation, but that is not true. At least one of the agencies on their list that I work for, included a CAT grid.

They included a CAT grid in the tender bid, I take it?


Yes

I would normally expect agencies to charge the government for the full wordcount while still demanding reductions from their translators.


Do not underestimate the modern translation buyer. Fuzzy matching was only a secret ten years ago.


 
Bernhard Sulzer
Bernhard Sulzer  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 12:17
English to German
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No fuzzy discounts May 4, 2016

Samuel Murray wrote:

Do not underestimate the modern translation buyer. Fuzzy matching was only a secret ten years ago.



Fuzzy matching is mainly a ploy by cheap agencies to get something for nothing. You need to look at the text in its entirety and context to assess a fair price for what you do. And there are still good, intelligent clients out there that appreciate our sophisticated work and fair pricing.


 
MK2010
MK2010  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 12:17
French to English
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This info is available to the public May 4, 2016

The GSA translation schedule lists all agencies with contracts with the U.S. government and it includes their price lists. The rate mentioned in this thread seems to be accurate. There are some agencies that quote quite a bit lower-- who knows, maybe they get more work?

 
Samuel Murray
Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 17:17
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
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@Bernhard May 5, 2016

Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
Samuel Murray wrote:
Do not underestimate the modern translation buyer. Fuzzy matching was only a secret ten years ago.

Fuzzy matching is mainly a ploy by cheap agencies to get something for nothing.


I disagree. Frequent buyers of translations (i.e. end-clients) are clued up about fuzzy matching and will understand that they're getting a raw deal if an agency tries to charge them for the full word count of a highly repetitive translation task. It may have been so in the past (say, 5-10 years ago) that only translators and agencies knew about fuzzy matching and how to make extra money with it at the end-client's expense, but it is no longer the case.


 
Jeff Whittaker
Jeff Whittaker  Identity Verified
United States
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Spanish to English
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TOPIC STARTER
I disagree with that statement May 5, 2016

Samuel Murray wrote:
make extra money with it at the end-client's expense, but it is no longer the case.


It was never the case of "cheating" the client. Translation rates were initially set taking into consideration the fact that there would be some repeated text and some similar text (aka "fuzzy"). If you remove these from the equation, then your base translation rate would have to increase to offset this difference. That's why I add +.04 to my rate if forced to use a CAT scheme.

[Edited at 2016-05-05 21:33 GMT]


 
Bernhard Sulzer
Bernhard Sulzer  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 12:17
English to German
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No raw deal from me May 5, 2016

Samuel Murray wrote:

Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
Samuel Murray wrote:
Do not underestimate the modern translation buyer. Fuzzy matching was only a secret ten years ago.

Fuzzy matching is mainly a ploy by cheap agencies to get something for nothing.


I disagree. Frequent buyers of translations (i.e. end-clients) are clued up about fuzzy matching and will understand that they're getting a raw deal if an agency tries to charge them for the full word count of a highly repetitive translation task. It may have been so in the past (say, 5-10 years ago) that only translators and agencies knew about fuzzy matching and how to make extra money with it at the end-client's expense, but it is no longer the case.



It's not up to the client (be it an agency or an end client) to demand a discount for fuzzy matches based on the analysis of their CAT tool just as it is not professional if we ignore repetitions in a very repetitive text when we're quoting for a project. But taking it into account should not turn into blind faith in arbitrary demands such as fuzzy grids. And taking exclusively these numbers into account to demand/determine a price for a translation must seem quite inappropriate to a translator IMO.

They won't get a raw deal simply because I don't acquiesce to such a scheme. The opposite is true. I am the one with the expertise, I am the one who assesses the project, assesses the work and the costs. Yes, I will take the use of a CAT tool into account when I do use it, but it's my tool that I use to create a translation. That tool is here to assist me in creating texts, either faster, or in order to improve the quality (maybe with regard to consistency of terminology). But that doesn't automatically call for a discount. Maybe you should charge more for better quality that you can deliver more quickly than someone without a CAT tool.

It's up to the translator, not the client, to determine what should be charged. If the client were so knowledgeable about what is involved in the task of translating, why don't they translate the text themselves?
Just because it has become a practice for certain groups in our industry to give in to fuzzy-match discounts doesn't mean I have to give in to it. I am quite capable of coming up with a fair price taking all aspects into account that are related to the task of translating a text without having to succumb to a fuzzy deal.


Unprofessional agencies aren't just trying to demand arbitrary discount rates for fuzzies in very repetitive texts, they like to do it for any kind of text. That should tell us something.

PS: I am not too concerned about what agencies charge their clients and what kind of scheme they have going on. I speak for myself as a translator. But I definitely won't work with agencies that demand fuzzy discounts.


[Edited at 2016-05-05 22:58 GMT]


 
Robert Forstag
Robert Forstag  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 12:17
Spanish to English
+ ...
Total fee, and not "per-word price" is what matters May 8, 2016

Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
You need to look at the text in its entirety and context to assess a fair price for what you do. And there are still good, intelligent clients out there that appreciate our sophisticated work and fair pricing.


This is exactly right. Especially when what a given CAT tool analyzes as a "fuzzy match" or even "exact match" ends up needing considerable revision.

I personally have had several squabbles with PMs at one of the big agencies in this regard. In a number of instances, I have quoted a per-word price that was accepted by one PM, who issued a PO based on the agreed price that later was disputed by another PM after I delivered the job. This under the pretext that "we don't pay for exact matches."

Leaving aside the bedrock axiom that "a deal is a deal," I explained to multiple PMs for this agency that what a CAT tool (in this case, Wordfast) analyzes as an "exact match" often contains translations which are grossly incorrect, sometimes even failing to match the numbers in source and target cells correctly and sometimes missing large sections of text.

The PMs in question here do not come out and say so, but what it seems that what they want for these kinds of jobs that have been pre-analyzed by Wordfast is a price quoted only on the basis of "new words," but with the understanding that the translator will look at and correct any problems in the cells analyzed as "100% matches."

This strikes me as unethical.

It seems to me that a translator faced with such a prospect has two solutions at his or her disposal:
1.
Quote a rate for the "new words" while making it clear that any cell analyzed as "100% matches" will not be modified, even if the translator happens to notice problems in such cells.
2.
Accept the job in the understanding that he or she will be expected to look at the cells analyzed as "100% matches" and modify the text therein when needed, and then quote a per-word rate for the new words that takes into account the extra time involved in such work.

If opting for the latter approach, the translator will need to get a clear sense of how good the matching is in order to determine a fair rate to charge.

[Edited at 2016-05-08 16:31 GMT]


 
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America's translation rate appears to be .21 per word / ATA bans rate discussions







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