| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11] > | TM-Town link at top of Proz kudoz-based ranking searches Thread poster: Jo Macdonald
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| It's clearly policy, not a 'problem' | Jul 6, 2016 |
Elizabeth Faracini wrote:
I agree with the sentiments expressed on this thread, and hope this problem gets resolved soon.
After the previous thread complaining about the reference to TM-Town with link at the bottom of all our profile pages (http://www.proz.com/forum/business_issues/303212-two_objections_regarding_tm_town_related_advertising.html), that reference with link was removed, without any official announcement however. It just disappeared.
Imo, this is the actual reply from the powers that be. I get the feeling that Proz as it now is will disappear one day into TM-Town, which clearly favours human-assisted machine translation.
When I joined Proz, it was a site for professional translators. Then it became a site with professional translators and now it's a site for absolutely anyone who wants to advertise themselves as a translator.
It seems those who heavily rely on CAT tools and specialise in copy/pasting TMs and other data directly from the www and then upload it onto TM-Town will soon be the 'stars' on what used to be Proz.com.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:16
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Yes - the writing is on the wall. I agree with the previous post. TM-Town is going to take over completely and Proz will then function like a dating agency that just relies on an algorhythm based on questionable data (TMs obtained from who knows where). I'm going to give Proz time until my current membership expires and then it will be a big question as to whether or not I click on that "renew" button.
| | | | | No equivalence | Jul 6, 2016 |
Ramey Rieger wrote:
EITHER all paying Proz members are exported to TM Town free of charge, maintaining their status (I rank no. 1 in several kudoz fields in my language pair) and/or ranking OR we simply leave Proz altogether. I don't see that we have much choice. But to be fair, we should inform Henry of our complaints and give him a chance to respond (correctly). This looks to me like yet ANOTHER case of money over humankind....
Sadly, there's no equivalence between KudoZ-based and TM/Nakōdo-based directories, so I don't see how that could be feasible.
As for membership, mine expired on the first of July, and (several) things such as this made me reconsider from my initial intention of going straight for a 10 year renewal...
I guess that could still be considered a relatively reasonable investment, marketing-wise (also considering the favorable refund policy), but, for how long, all things considered?
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:16
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Ramey Rieger wrote:
EITHER all paying Proz members are exported to TM Town free of charge....
That wouldn't work for me and I would still be the loser, because I don't use any CAT tools, have no need of them, and have no intention of using them at any time in the future- so I don't generate TMs.
And even if I started, only my first TMs would appear - making me look like a novice !
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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:16
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Mirko Mainardi wrote:
.... my initial intention of going straight for a 10 year renewal...
I would say it's inadvisable to renew *anything* for 10 years 
| | | | | To prevent this... | Jul 6, 2016 |
Matthias Brombach wrote:
...many outsourcers tend to send huge TMs loaded with segments not only combined with the job in question...
...translations agencies who haven't already done so will need more than ever to set up fracking online CAT tools in an attempt to prevent careless translators from making unauthorised use of their assets. It will likely make agencies even more dependent on CAT makers, so that the loop can be closed.
Anyway things like TM-Town have implementations in many sectors, so this big data mix-n-match was bound to happen in our business sooner or later. It's even almost surprising that no CAT maker/word factory had thought about it sooner, actually. Therefore congratulations to Kevin for being the first.
Since these all-computational approaches are meant to stay and thrive, maybe I should just retrieve the dozens of DVDs filled with TMs I have collected during all these years, from stadium turf and bird magnetic sensitivity to yo-yo tricks and aorta prostheses, and try my luck with offline Nakodo, blissfully ignoring all gentleman's- or written agreements I have ever entered into.
I'm just waiting for my free MemoQ license and my free one-year membership!
Since the advent of mankind, information (included in the acronym IT) is power. Only nowadays, we also have to make sure that we still own our own (information), just to keep that bit of power that differentiates us from cogs.
Philippe
Edited because it seems from the comment below that I can't make myself clear. Hamming was certainly a great man and computing does do wonders when used sensibly.
[Edited at 2016-07-06 19:39 GMT]
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:16
Member (2008)
Italian to English
"The purpose of computing is insight, not numbers"
Richard Hamming - who knew more than most about IT and why he was interested in it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Hamming
The comment above this one seems very naive and wide-eyed to me.
[Edited at 2016-07-06 16:10 GMT]
| | | | Michael Beijer 
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:16
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
| puzzled re your statement, "TM-Town … clearly favours human-assisted machine translation" | Jul 6, 2016 |
writeaway wrote: Elizabeth Faracini wrote:
I agree with the sentiments expressed on this thread, and hope this problem gets resolved soon.
After the previous thread complaining about the reference to TM-Town with link at the bottom of all our profile pages ( http://www.proz.com/forum/business_issues/303212-two_objections_regarding_tm_town_related_advertising.html), that reference with link was removed, without any official announcement however. It just disappeared. Imo, this is the actual reply from the powers that be. I get the feeling that Proz as it now is will disappear one day into TM-Town, which clearly favours human-assisted machine translation. When I joined Proz, it was a site for professional translators. Then it became a site with professional translators and now it's a site for absolutely anyone who wants to advertise themselves as a translator. It seems those who heavily rely on CAT tools and specialise in copy/pasting TMs and other data directly from the www and then upload it onto TM-Town will soon be the 'stars' on what used to be Proz.com.
Care to explain exactly how "TM-Town … clearly favours human-assisted machine translation". I don't think that makes much sense at all.
Michael
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James Heppe-Smith
Türkiye
Local time: 10:16
German to English
Moderator of this forum | Please keep on topic | Jul 6, 2016 |
The thread is slowly migrating towards areas which are not in line with the Proz ideals...
Please keep it factual and on topic.
Thank you.
| | | | Michael Beijer
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:16
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
| Let's not make this about CAT tools. | Jul 6, 2016 |
writeaway wrote: Elizabeth Faracini wrote:
I agree with the sentiments expressed on this thread, and hope this problem gets resolved soon.
After the previous thread complaining about the reference to TM-Town with link at the bottom of all our profile pages ( http://www.proz.com/forum/business_issues/303212-two_objections_regarding_tm_town_related_advertising.html), that reference with link was removed, without any official announcement however. It just disappeared. Imo, this is the actual reply from the powers that be. I get the feeling that Proz as it now is will disappear one day into TM-Town, which clearly favours human-assisted machine translation. When I joined Proz, it was a site for professional translators. Then it became a site with professional translators and now it's a site for absolutely anyone who wants to advertise themselves as a translator. It seems those who heavily rely on CAT tools and specialise in copy/pasting TMs and other data directly from the www and then upload it onto TM-Town will soon be the 'stars' on what used to be Proz.com.
Let's not make this about CAT tools. You obviously don't like them, but others do.
Just a quick pro-technology argument, and then I'll shut up.
I'm currently translating a set of 15 documents for a bank. My client (an agency) also provided me with previously translated documents for reference, and a big TM, based on past translations done by:
(1) translators who worked in a CAT tool, and
(2) translators who worked directly in MS Word, whose translations were later aligned and fed into the TM.
Anyway, since I can open all 15 docs in a single "view" in memoQ , I am able to filter on keywords on both the source and target side. I can also do the same thing while looking through the big TM, via a concordance search. And guess what? I quickly found that there is a huge amount of inconsistency across the previously translated documents. Some of the translations in the TM I was provided with are actually very good, but since some of the translators obviously didn't use a CAT tool, they are often full of inconsistencies, which is a bad thing in documents like these (sets of many nearly identical contracts, terms and conditions, etc.).
Anyway, CAT tools are just that: tools. In the hands of morons, they can be dangerous, but in the hands of someone who can actually translate well to start with, they can be very handy indeed.
And regarding TM-Town, sure, maybe there will be a few translators who upload garbage or material that they didn't even translate themselves, but is this really such a problem? After all, their clients will soon enough find out and stop using them. It's not much different than if they had found them via the old-fashioned way (i.e. via their Proz profile), only to find out that they were crap when receiving the first ‘translation’.
Michael
| | | | Jo Macdonald
Spain
Local time: 09:16
Italian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Thanks everyone for contributing | Jul 6, 2016 |
If at all possible I would prefer if this didn't turn into another TM-Town/Proz bashing thread, or an endless discussion about pMT/TMT, Cats that are dogs, what you had for breakfast, should I stay or should I go now....
I consider this to be quite important as I've contributed a lot of time to my kudoz ranking and don't want people who've found me here to be encouraged to look for someone else on another site. So if possible I would rather see that link removed from the top of the ... See more If at all possible I would prefer if this didn't turn into another TM-Town/Proz bashing thread, or an endless discussion about pMT/TMT, Cats that are dogs, what you had for breakfast, should I stay or should I go now....
I consider this to be quite important as I've contributed a lot of time to my kudoz ranking and don't want people who've found me here to be encouraged to look for someone else on another site. So if possible I would rather see that link removed from the top of the Proz Translators' search results. I think it's potentially damaging to paying members and to Proz too. You don't see a link to Amazon on ebay do you?
Imo there are many more appropriate places to promote TM-Town than at the top of a list of top kudoz ranking paying Proz members.
For me Proz is a great resource for putting me in contact with new clients, plus all the other benefits. Nothing's perfect, but I hope the site continues to do the good job it's done until now and if the offending link could possibly be removed I honestly think that would be a step in the right direction to continuing said good job.
Micheal perhaps you'd like to comment on the topic.
[Edited at 2016-07-06 19:42 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Michael Beijer
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:16
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
| OK. will give it a shot | Jul 6, 2016 |
Jo Macdonald wrote:
If at all possible I would prefer if this didn't turn into another TM-Town/Proz bashing thread, or an endless discussion about pMT/TMT, Cats/dogs, what you had for breakfast, should I stay or should I go now...whatever.
I consider this to be quite important as I've contributed a lot of time to my kudoz ranking and don't want people who've found me here to be encouraged to look for someone else on another site. So if possible I would rather see that link removed from the top of the Proz Translators' search results. I think it's potentially damaging to paying members and to Proz too. You don't see a link to Amazon on ebay do you?
Imo there are many more appropriate places to promote TM-Town than at the top of a list of top kudoz ranking paying Proz members.
For me Proz is a great resource for putting me in contact with new clients, plus all the other benefits. Nothing's perfect, but I hope the site continues to do the good job it's done until now and if the offending link could possibly be removed I honestly think that would be a step in the right direction to continuing said good job.
Micheal perhaps you'd like to comment on the topic.
[Edited at 2016-07-06 18:52 GMT]
Although I am decidedly ambivalent, I wouldn't be against the powers that be removing the darned TM-Town link at the top of KudoZ-based ranking searches. I think you're probably right and that it isn't really fair on all the non-TM-Towners and CAT-fearing old timers.
I'm on TM-Town too, but don't really like it much, and prefer it over here on the old skool side. Incidentally, I've also put a lot of work into KudoZ (to boost my ranking), so feel your pain.
Michael
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Michele Fauble
United States
Local time: 00:16
Member (2006)
Norwegian to English
+ ...
Jo Macdonald wrote:
I consider this to be quite important as I've contributed a lot of time to my kudoz ranking and don't want people who've found me here to be encouraged to look for someone else on another site. So if possible I would rather see that link removed from the top of the Proz Translators' search results. I think it's potentially damaging to paying members and to Proz too.
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Michele Fauble wrote: Jo Macdonald wrote:
I consider this to be quite important as I've contributed a lot of time to my kudoz ranking and don't want people who've found me here to be encouraged to look for someone else on another site. So if possible I would rather see that link removed from the top of the Proz Translators' search results. I think it's potentially damaging to paying members and to Proz too.
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 08:16
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| That says it for me | Jul 6, 2016 |
Jo Macdonald wrote:
I've contributed a lot of time to my kudoz ranking and don't want people who've found me here to be encouraged to look for someone else on another site. So if possible I would rather see that link removed from the top of the Proz Translators' search results. I think it's potentially damaging to paying members and to Proz too. You don't see a link to Amazon on ebay do you?
Imo there are many more appropriate places to promote TM-Town than at the top of a list of top kudoz ranking paying Proz members.
For me Proz is a great resource for putting me in contact with new clients, plus all the other benefits. Nothing's perfect, but I hope the site continues to do the good job it's done until now and if the offending link could possibly be removed I honestly think that would be a step in the right direction to continuing said good job.
My feelings are running very high on this one, and I know I'm not alone.
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