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¡Finally here! WWA rating for translators
Thread poster: Álvaro Espantaleón Moreno

Angie Garbarino  Identity Verified
Member (2003)
French to Italian
+ ...
Yes there are many Mar 12, 2018

Georgie Scott wrote:

Are there any plans to sort out the bugs introduced by this new system?

WWA used to be really clear and easy to read, now it is quite a mess.

I hope so, as there are many bugs all over the site,


 

Michael Beijer  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:34
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
wow, not impressed Mar 12, 2018

Just had a look, and the old system was way clearer.

Michael


 

jyuan_us  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 07:34
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
Some translators are confused with WWA Jul 3, 2018

Did you guys find that some translators are confused about WWA. I have found some entries/ratings on the profile pages of a number of translation companies were left by their translators.

 

Thao Tran
Vietnam
Local time: 18:34
Member (2017)
English to Vietnamese
+ ...
Can outsourcer with previously open non-payment report give service provider a negative WWA rating? Sep 1, 2018

Hi everyone,

I recently had this UK client who greatly disappointed me in my last two projects with them.

On the last project, they changed the amount on the PO via their platform while I was working on the project. When I saw the change, I notified the PM, nothing was resolved. The matter was escalated to the CEO of the company, very soon the CFO issued an apology and settled the payment.

On the second to last project, they were late in the payment and di
... See more
Hi everyone,

I recently had this UK client who greatly disappointed me in my last two projects with them.

On the last project, they changed the amount on the PO via their platform while I was working on the project. When I saw the change, I notified the PM, nothing was resolved. The matter was escalated to the CEO of the company, very soon the CFO issued an apology and settled the payment.

On the second to last project, they were late in the payment and didn't proceed payment until I filed non-payment report via Proz.

After they made the payment, I notified Proz, thus, the non-payment report was closed and my rating for that client on their Blue Board disappeared.

I then had to issue a new rating on their Blue Board. I still gave the outsourcer a very low rating because their action of changing the PO amount while I was working is a very serious matter.

I've never given any client such low rating.

Normally, my lowest rating for outsourcer is 3/5.

I'm wondering whether it is possible for a client who (1) possibly abuses / has unfair trade tactics toward translators, and (2) was once filed a non-payment report by a particular translator, can get back to that translator and give him/her a negative review as well?

When you guys gave an agency a negative review, did it cross your mind whether that agency could get back to you and do to you the same thing you did to them?

Regards,
Thao
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Mirko Mainardi  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 13:34
Member
English to Italian
Please reconsider Apr 24

Suddenly, this is what I saw on my profile page. I opted out from "ratings" since its inception, for a number of reasons touched in this thread. The new look of the WWA section doesn't show feedback anymore at a glance, and the "notice" it shows almost seems to imply I received "negative reviews" and decided to hide them (which is not the case).

Please reconsider.

WWA NEW


 

jyuan_us  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 07:34
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
My 2 cents Apr 24

Some outsourcers always choose "4" even if they think the linguist being evaluated is perfect. Maybe they never give a 5 in their life when they rate something in their life. There is nothing wrong with the outsourcer opting to give a 4, and this behavior may have to do with their personality, which you cannot change.

However, you as a linguist will have an average score of 4-4.9 if you have a few 4's. When most outsourcers would expect their new linguists to have a 5, your score i
... See more
Some outsourcers always choose "4" even if they think the linguist being evaluated is perfect. Maybe they never give a 5 in their life when they rate something in their life. There is nothing wrong with the outsourcer opting to give a 4, and this behavior may have to do with their personality, which you cannot change.

However, you as a linguist will have an average score of 4-4.9 if you have a few 4's. When most outsourcers would expect their new linguists to have a 5, your score in the range of 4-4.9 could mean a crisis.
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Mirko Mainardi
Josephine Cassar
 

Rocío Tempone
Local time: 08:34
SITE STAFF
Regarding the new change to the feedback card text Apr 24

Hi, Mirko.

The change was made after several outsourcers voiced their concerns about feedback cards not being completely accurate or transparent due to the possibility of making ratings invisible.

We decided to change the wording to express this and be as transparent and clear as possible for risk management, since WWA ratings can range from 1 to 5 stars but WWA reviews are always positive. This change was made to the feedback card alone; in the directory, the number
... See more
Hi, Mirko.

The change was made after several outsourcers voiced their concerns about feedback cards not being completely accurate or transparent due to the possibility of making ratings invisible.

We decided to change the wording to express this and be as transparent and clear as possible for risk management, since WWA ratings can range from 1 to 5 stars but WWA reviews are always positive. This change was made to the feedback card alone; in the directory, the number of WWA reviews (and ratings if visible) still appears.

I understand your concerns about the wording, so we've made a small adjustment to this end:

This service provider has chosen to display WWA reviews (positive) received from clients.
This service provider has chosen not to display feedback ratings publicly.


Thank you for your feedback!
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Mirko Mainardi  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 13:34
Member
English to Italian
Part of the problem Apr 25

jyuan_us wrote:

Some outsourcers always choose "4" even if they think the linguist being evaluated is perfect. Maybe they never give a 5 in their life when they rate something in their life. There is nothing wrong with the outsourcer opting to give a 4, and this behavior may have to do with their personality, which you cannot change.

However, you as a linguist will have an average score of 4-4.9 if you have a few 4's. When most outsourcers would expect their new linguists to have a 5, your score in the range of 4-4.9 could mean a crisis.


That's part of the problem, yes , but it goes well beyond that, and I believe this thread touched most aspects of it, presented by many colleagues. I was OK with the compromise solution of opting-out of the ratings system at the cost of not taking advantage of "Pools", but apparently this has changed again...

Just to be clear, what was shown until yesterday was:

WWA OLD

While from yesterday visitors will not see at a glance the WWAs I received from clients, but some kind of "warning notice" telling them I decided to hide something from them. That's the point I'm making here. That's not exactly what I'd call good publicity...

Rocío Tempone wrote:

The change was made after several outsourcers voiced their concerns about feedback cards not being completely accurate or transparent due to the possibility of making ratings invisible.


Thank you for your reply, Rocio.

However, please note that what I did is not choose "to display WWA reviews (positive) received from clients", or "not to display feedback ratings publicly" (also considering I don't have any...). My profile and WWAs existed well before "ratings" were introduced, and what I did do at the time was choose to completely opt-out from the ratings system from the very beginning, as I didn't agree with it, for very specific reasons (listed in this thread and elsewhere by many colleagues). At the time we were given the option to do that at the cost of not being listed in the "Pools", and I 'paid that price' in order to do so.

Please at least consider using a notice that says "This service provider has opted-out of the ratings system" or something to that effect, for people who, like me, did just that and nothing else, IF that is considered really necessary by someone (as it would seem...). Also, I really believe the WWA window on our profiles should still show at a glance the WWAs we did receive, as it did until 2 days ago... as that's what it's supposed to do... with the aforementioned notice below it, if absolutely deemed necessary. I believe the new change is not particularly positive for us, marketing-wise...

Thank you for your attention.


 

Rocío Tempone
Local time: 08:34
SITE STAFF
Difference between not displaying ratings and withdrawing (opting out) of WWA system Apr 28

Hi, Mirko.

I appreciate your reply and feedback.

However, please note that at the moment the option "This service provider has opted-out of the ratings system" is not a possibility giving that it is not possible to opt out of ratings.

As it's explained here https://www.proz.com/faq/2542#2542 , you "This service provider has opted-out of the ratings system" is not a possibility giving that it is not possible to opt out of ratings.

As it's explained here https://www.proz.com/faq/2542#2542 , you can opt out of the feedback network. This means that the person is withdrawing both from the (entire) WWA system and the LWA system (meaning, the person doesn't receive unsolicited WWA entries or ratings, but at the same time can't make Blue Board entries).

Having said this, choosing not to display one's ratings is not the same as opting out of the system, as outsourcers can still make ratings entries on a profile even if the translator has chosen not to show them.

Like I mentioned before, anyone can still see the number of entries in a ProZ Find search, as well as in the feedback card itself, but I will raise your suggestion to have it back on the WWA box and discuss it with the rest of the team:



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Mirko Mainardi  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 13:34
Member
English to Italian
History May 11

Rocío Tempone wrote:

Hi, Mirko.

I appreciate your reply and feedback.

However, please note that at the moment the option "This service provider has opted-out of the ratings system" is not a possibility giving that it is not possible to opt out of ratings.

As it's explained here https://www.proz.com/faq/2542#2542 , you can opt out of the feedback network. This means that the person is withdrawing both from the (entire) WWA system and the LWA system (meaning, the person doesn't receive unsolicited WWA entries or ratings, but at the same time can't make Blue Board entries).

Having said this, choosing not to display one's ratings is not the same as opting out of the system, as outsourcers can still make ratings entries on a profile even if the translator has chosen not to show them.

Like I mentioned before, anyone can still see the number of entries in a ProZ Find search, as well as in the feedback card itself, but I will raise your suggestion to have it back on the WWA box and discuss it with the rest of the team:





Hi again Rocio, thanks for your reply.

Well, I was here when all of that happened, witnessing the changes first-hand as they were introduced and unfolded and actively discussing them on the fora (as you can see in this thread, among others). I am of course not referring to the opt-out feature you linked. After "pools" were introduced, I had 2 profiles there, one in the CPN pool and another one in the "game localizers" pool. When "ratings" where introduced, we were told they were mandatory for those who were in "pools", so, after many discussions in various threads, I simply decided to close my profiles there, effectively forfeiting that service (at the cost of decreased visibility), as I didn't agree with the new "ratings" system altogether, as previously mentioned. Even now, if I visit those "pools" pages, I'm told I have a profile there, but if I click on the link, what I get is an invalid URL page (and it's been like that for ages).

Pools
Pools2

(I really don't care about the error page or the page telling me I still have a profile there, I only mentioned that in order to stress the fact that what I previously wrote is not a tale I came up with, but how things actually went...)


By the way, where is the option to hide/show "ratings", exactly? I've been searching for it in my settings for a long while, and I couldn't find it. If I'm now forced to have a WWA box on my profile page that instead of actually showing my WWAs says I'm hiding something from prospective clients, then I might have to reconsider my choices about that (although most unwillingly).


At any rate, again, I hope you appreciate the difference between someone who received a negative rating and then decides to "hide" it, and someone who took issue with the concept of "rating" itself (as applied here, in this context) from the very beginning and decided not to take part in it at all... and yet, that's what any visitor to my profile would be led to believe. That is to say, that I am hiding some negative rating...

And yes, I am aware of the fact that WWA feedback is still (for now at least...) shown in searches, but after a search in a directory, an outsourcer will check those profiles... In my case, an outsourcer who finds me with a directory search sees "10 positive reviews" there, but then, after opening my profile, they're basically told I'm hiding ratings... Do you truly think that's positive (or fair, or just reflecting facts, as I have no "ratings" at all)? I think marketing is a very important aspect on proz (so much so that you have courses about that and on how to better showcase one's services on their profiles...), and this new change negatively impacts it, and I hope you can see and acknowledge that...

Concerning the 'optionality' of "ratings", please let me quote a very relevant exchange between a colleague and a proz representative in a thread concerning "pools" (the emphasis is mine):

Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:

Henry Dotterer wrote:

Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:

Henry Dotterer wrote:

As for positive and negative feedback, I think it is fair to say that it is a normal and expected part of online matching today.


I don't think it's "fair" to say that...


We understand well the issue of imbalance (as you know well from eighteen years here with no possibility for negative feedback.) The expectation I am referring to is among potential partners, some of whom are not from the industry. The biggest freelancer websites in the world now have ratings, so that has painted people's understanding. As you can imagine, then, agreeing to open the door to ratings at ProZ.com on a permission basis -- that is, enabling those members who are ok with opening themselves up to feedback to do so -- makes it a lot easier to enter into partnerships.


Thanks for the explanation, Henry... I'm aware of the fact you never allowed unilateral negative feedback in all these years... I was here too! - well for some of the time! I'm not being sarcastic, for once... Obviously, whoever participate in such a scheme will give their consensus, so that's fine by me. But I would never take part just because of this... I guess you see it as a necessary evil, I see it as unfair - since this is a requirement. But at least we can choose...


https://www.proz.com/forum/prozcom_translator_coop/317539-prozcom_pools™_subtitling_just_added_what_niche_next.html#2670968

"Agreeing to open the door to ratings at ProZ.com on a permission basis -- that is, enabling those members who are ok with opening themselves up to feedback to do so" sounds pretty clear to me... that is to say, a permission based participation in the ratings system. Opt-in/out. As a consequence, those 'who are not ok' with it should not be penalized for it, also in terms of public image, especially considering that's one of the cornerstones of proz's (paid) offering.

[Edited at 2020-05-11 13:44 GMT]


 
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