| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Are agencies wary of working with freelance companies over individuals? Thread poster: sdvplatt
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sdvplatt
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:59
Member (2003)
German to English
+ ...
If so, what is this grounded on?
My feeling is agencies- the bulk of providers on proz.com at least in my language combinations - prefer to work with individuals though won't necessarily communicate that openly.
Perhaps there is a feeling the work can be subcontracted out more easily by another company versus another individual (whether they pay enough to allow that practically is a moot point). Perhaps they are issues with liability should something go wrong, though couldnt t... See more If so, what is this grounded on?
My feeling is agencies- the bulk of providers on proz.com at least in my language combinations - prefer to work with individuals though won't necessarily communicate that openly.
Perhaps there is a feeling the work can be subcontracted out more easily by another company versus another individual (whether they pay enough to allow that practically is a moot point). Perhaps they are issues with liability should something go wrong, though couldnt this be covered by relevant contractual terms?
It's not as if there exists an employment relationship (contract of service) between agency and freelance translator.
Any thoughts? ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Not sure I understand what you are getting at | Oct 5, 2018 |
1) "Are agencies wary of working with freelance companies versus individuals"?
Do you mean that you get the impression that agencies posting jobs on ProZ seem to prefer working directly with an individual freelancer rather than a firm of freelancers?
2) Simon Platt wrote:
Perhaps there is a feeling the work can be subcontracted out more easily by another company versus another individual (whether they pay enough to allow that practically is a moot point). Perhaps they are issues with liability should something go wrong, though couldn't this be covered by relevant contractual terms?
Do you mean the agencies in question might think that a firm of translators is more likely to subcontract work out than an individual translator might be? If that's what you mean, then I think it is very likely that an agency will want to know precisely which individual translator is doing their work. Part of an agency's job is to find individuals whose skills and experience match the client's request. I'm not certain that an agency might think a firm of translators might subcontract work out further, as if the firm were a second agency, just that they prefer to know which individual is actually doing the work.
3) Simon Platt wrote:
It's not as if there exists an employment relationship (contract of service) between agency and freelance translator.
I agree, of course, that there is not an employer-employee relationship between agency and freelancer, (although I've an experience with one that expected me to be available almost exclusively for them. In France, freelancers are "independent" workers and are not considered independent if they work exclusively and permanently for one single client). However, I don't see why you put "contract of service" in brackets after "employment relationship", because the is a contract for the provision of a service between an agency and a freelancer.
[Edited at 2018-10-05 22:14 GMT]
| | | | | In my experience, no... | Oct 6, 2018 |
Bureau Portugais de Traduction (BPT in short) is now co-owned by me and my daughter (I’m the main translator, she deals with the administrative side of things) but BPT started out in 1985 as a translator’s cooperative (with a very small group of associates: 5 altogether). Before 1985, I worked as a part-time freelancer. I must say that I haven’t seen no difference in what regards agencies and direct clients, but I only outsource in two cases: a language I don’t master (we decided early o... See more Bureau Portugais de Traduction (BPT in short) is now co-owned by me and my daughter (I’m the main translator, she deals with the administrative side of things) but BPT started out in 1985 as a translator’s cooperative (with a very small group of associates: 5 altogether). Before 1985, I worked as a part-time freelancer. I must say that I haven’t seen no difference in what regards agencies and direct clients, but I only outsource in two cases: a language I don’t master (we decided early on to concentrate our work in the Portuguese language and we translate exclusively from and into European Portuguese) and when I’m overloaded with work. I must add that I never outsource without informing the client: being transparent is the key…
Let’s say also that when a job poster says «no agencies please» I find myself in a conundrum if I happen to be interested in that job: I’m not exactly a freelancer and I’m not exactly an agency! I don’t reply to job postings very often (unless they are private) but so far I had no problem…
[Edited at 2018-10-06 10:47 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | DZiW (X)
Ukraine
English to Russian
+ ...
| biz is not people? | Oct 6, 2018 |
I think the root cause is most translators are but poor businessmen easily fooled into "best rates", "discounts", "after 60+ days payment", "legal entity workflow peculiarities", and other absurd tricks and ploys NOT related to the real business.
While there're one-two-three person companies, they do know the ropes and how to do B2B, because they consider the fact that behind every biz there're just people. That's why where individual translators subdue, even small companies ... See more I think the root cause is most translators are but poor businessmen easily fooled into "best rates", "discounts", "after 60+ days payment", "legal entity workflow peculiarities", and other absurd tricks and ploys NOT related to the real business.
While there're one-two-three person companies, they do know the ropes and how to do B2B, because they consider the fact that behind every biz there're just people. That's why where individual translators subdue, even small companies are as serious about their gains and losses as big companies.
Shortly, there're very many translators who don't know and afraid of doing biz, so it's no discrimination, just taking advantage of unaware masses; a white-collar criminal monopoly
[Edited at 2018-10-06 11:13 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Lincoln Hui 
Hong Kong
Local time: 16:59
Member
Chinese to English
+ ...
| Wouldn't you be? | Oct 6, 2018 |
If you needed a translation done, wouldn't you rather deal directly with the person doing the translation rather than pass messages through a middleman?
Firms of course enjoy certain management advantages, but agencies already have provisions for those.
| | | | | What is a freelance company? | Oct 7, 2018 |
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| | | | Kay Denney
France
Local time: 10:59
French to English
As a PM, I learned to never give translations to anyone who might just outsource it. There was a couple of translators we worked with at one point, and they said one translated the other proofread, so I thought I could make an exception on that. The first translation they handed in was competent and coherent. Then on other occasions I found that the style was incredibly inconsistent. One would do the original translation, then the other would handle the update. Trouble was, they had wildly diffe... See more As a PM, I learned to never give translations to anyone who might just outsource it. There was a couple of translators we worked with at one point, and they said one translated the other proofread, so I thought I could make an exception on that. The first translation they handed in was competent and coherent. Then on other occasions I found that the style was incredibly inconsistent. One would do the original translation, then the other would handle the update. Trouble was, they had wildly different translating styles, one being very spare and laconic, obviously working to "cut the cr@p" and "If in doubt, leave it out", and the other using a chattier, more flowery style. Nothing wrong with either, but reading the text gave a decidedly schizophrenic feel. So we dropped them too. ▲ Collapse
| | | | sdvplatt
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:59
Member (2003)
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Kay Denney wrote: As a PM, I learned to never give translations to anyone who might just outsource it. There was a couple of translators we worked with at one point, and they said one translated the other proofread, so I thought I could make an exception on that. The first translation they handed in was competent and coherent. Then on other occasions I found that the style was incredibly inconsistent. One would do the original translation, then the other would handle the update. Trouble was, they had wildly different translating styles, one being very spare and laconic, obviously working to "cut the cr@p" and "If in doubt, leave it out", and the other using a chattier, more flowery style. Nothing wrong with either, but reading the text gave a decidedly schizophrenic feel. So we dropped them too.
Nice to hear from the other side. However, it is not necessarily true that a freelance acting as a company will outsource any more than an individual freelancer.
That was the point of this post to try and address this.
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sdvplatt
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:59
Member (2003)
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Elif Baykara Narbay wrote:
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A freelance can be self-employed or set up a company and accept jobs that way.
| | | | sdvplatt
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:59
Member (2003)
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | rather than pass messages through a middleman? | Oct 8, 2018 |
Lincoln Hui wrote:
If you needed a translation done, wouldn't you rather deal directly with the person doing the translation rather than pass messages through a middleman?
Firms of course enjoy certain management advantages, but agencies already have provisions for those.
Your first sentence seems be against agencies, the second one for.
The post isn't about the merits of agencies per se. Its whether there is a prejudice against freelancer and freelancer network companies (probably to protect certain vested interests) when the same risks also apply to individuals and even some agencies.
| | | | jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 04:59
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
| Something needs to be clarified, I guess | Oct 8, 2018 |
[email protected] wrote: Perhaps they are issues with liability should something go wrong, though couldnt this be covered by relevant contractual terms?
What did you mean by "they"? What are issues with liability? When you say "couldnt this be covered", what did you mean by "this"?
| | | | jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 04:59
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
| What did you mean by this? | Oct 8, 2018 |
[email protected] wrote: It's not as if there exists an employment relationship (contract of service) between agency and freelance translator.
Just couldn't understand why you mentioned this.
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jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 04:59
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
| What are "freelancer network companies"? | Oct 8, 2018 |
[email protected] wrote: Lincoln Hui wrote:
If you needed a translation done, wouldn't you rather deal directly with the person doing the translation rather than pass messages through a middleman?
Firms of course enjoy certain management advantages, but agencies already have provisions for those. Your first sentence seems be against agencies, the second one for. The post isn't about the merits of agencies per se. Its whether there is a prejudice against freelancer and freelancer network companies (probably to protect certain vested interests) when the same risks also apply to individuals and even some agencies.
There are so many new concepts in your posts that have never been heard of.
| | | | sdvplatt
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:59
Member (2003)
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
jyuan_us wrote: [email protected] wrote: Lincoln Hui wrote:
If you needed a translation done, wouldn't you rather deal directly with the person doing the translation rather than pass messages through a middleman?
Firms of course enjoy certain management advantages, but agencies already have provisions for those. Your first sentence seems be against agencies, the second one for. The post isn't about the merits of agencies per se. Its whether there is a prejudice against freelancer and freelancer network companies (probably to protect certain vested interests) when the same risks also apply to individuals and even some agencies. There are so many new concepts in your posts that have never been heard of.
Think about the differences between an agency and a network of translators all working for a single company (may also be an non profit or similar), key point is at the other end is a legal person not a natural person.
>>It's not as if there exists an employment relationship (contract of service) between agency and freelance translator.
Its not as if an agency is working with a natural person in the usual sense of providing employment ergo
why should it matter if its a translator or a company of translator(s) legally?
It is just work for services, i.e. governed by contract and the relevant laws.
| | | | Joe France
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:59
Member (2016)
German to English
+ ...
I think what others (like Lincoln and Kay) have been getting at, and what would appear to be the main issue here, is control. If a company/agency assigns a project to an individual translator, they know exactly who is carrying out the translation, what their experience is, where their expertise lies – and who to chase if they have any issues! It's a more direct service with more direct control.
You use the word "prejudice", which I don't think is correct - but given that an interm... See more I think what others (like Lincoln and Kay) have been getting at, and what would appear to be the main issue here, is control. If a company/agency assigns a project to an individual translator, they know exactly who is carrying out the translation, what their experience is, where their expertise lies – and who to chase if they have any issues! It's a more direct service with more direct control.
You use the word "prejudice", which I don't think is correct - but given that an intermediate agency would naturally take a slice of the payment and therefore subcontract to a cheaper (and by extension/assumption potentially less qualified/experienced) translator, I don't think it's unreasonable that a company might prefer to deal with a translator directly.
I don't think it's about prejudice. It's about choice. There are countless agencies who scrimp and save and look for the cheapest option over taking control and searching for quality. But if a method of working offers a company control, accountability and potentially greater quality, I don't really see the issue?
You might do well to set out your question more clearly. Some companies may well seek to work with individuals rather than other agencies. But really, why is that a problem? ▲ Collapse
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