English to Italian narrative fiction translation: choice of tenses for the Italian translation.
Thread poster: Martina Corbetti
Martina Corbetti
Martina Corbetti
Italy
Local time: 15:25
English to Italian
+ ...
Dec 28, 2020

Dear all,

I am currently translating a fictional work of literature from English to Italian. The author in the original version employed present tenses throughout all the book, setting the actions in the very moment they are narrated. Translating all this in Italian works but it seems to me a little bit too mechanical and is not really going smooth as I would have liked.

I am thinking of using a past tense for the Italian version. It's of course a big change from the
... See more
Dear all,

I am currently translating a fictional work of literature from English to Italian. The author in the original version employed present tenses throughout all the book, setting the actions in the very moment they are narrated. Translating all this in Italian works but it seems to me a little bit too mechanical and is not really going smooth as I would have liked.

I am thinking of using a past tense for the Italian version. It's of course a big change from the original but it will not affect the content of the novel and would be more easy to be read by Italian audience.

I would be happy to know what do you think about it and if you (italian) translators that are reading would agree or not.

Many thanks for your help,

Martina
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Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:25
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Don't do that Dec 28, 2020

If the Author decided to write in the present tense, there was a reason. As a translator your job is to be strictly faithful to the original , whether you like how it's written or not, and not to interfere with ideas of your own.



[Edited at 2020-12-28 13:30 GMT]


IrinaN
P.L.F. Persio
Angie Garbarino
Yaotl Altan
Elisa Navetta Mason
 
Lingua 5B
Lingua 5B  Identity Verified
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 15:25
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
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? Dec 28, 2020

Tom in London wrote:

If the Author decided to write in the present tense, there was a reason. As a translator your job is to be strictly faithful to the original , whether you like how it's written or not, and not to interfere with ideas of your own.



[Edited at 2020-12-28 13:30 GMT]


What if it doesn't work well or doesn't sound right in Italian? Or the flow is weird?

@OP Does the historical narrative present tense exist in Italian, and does it have the same function and tone as in English? If it doesn't, then adaptation may be justified. Maybe you can provide some examples (1 or 2 sentences).

[Edited at 2020-12-28 13:43 GMT]


 
Arabic & More
Arabic & More  Identity Verified
Jordan
Arabic to English
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Choices Dec 28, 2020

Is it something you are able to discuss with the original author?

Maybe the author would be able to offer more insight on the reasons behind the chosen tense. You would also be able to ask whether he or she is strongly attached to this format.

This type of writing can be jarring in English as well.

I once faced this problem with something I translated from Arabic to English, but I decided to change the tenses for better flow. I don't regret my decision, bec
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Is it something you are able to discuss with the original author?

Maybe the author would be able to offer more insight on the reasons behind the chosen tense. You would also be able to ask whether he or she is strongly attached to this format.

This type of writing can be jarring in English as well.

I once faced this problem with something I translated from Arabic to English, but I decided to change the tenses for better flow. I don't regret my decision, because it would not have worked otherwise...and then guess who would have shouldered the blame for bad writing?
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Martina Corbetti
Martina Corbetti
Italy
Local time: 15:25
English to Italian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
translating imperfetto Dec 29, 2020

Thank you all for your reply.

I believe the use of imperfetto tense in the Italian version for some sentences, instead of the present would allow the translation to be readable in the translated version. Perhaps I could try to stick to the original present tenses where possible and adjust with a soft Italian past tense where the translation seems stuck.

The English language tends to employ a tense throughout the text once it's established, while Italian language tends
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Thank you all for your reply.

I believe the use of imperfetto tense in the Italian version for some sentences, instead of the present would allow the translation to be readable in the translated version. Perhaps I could try to stick to the original present tenses where possible and adjust with a soft Italian past tense where the translation seems stuck.

The English language tends to employ a tense throughout the text once it's established, while Italian language tends to differ tenses according to the actions that are being described. For example, in the text the author describe a stroll in the forest and some thoughts of the participant and some single action of the characters all using the present tenses. In the Italian version, when translating for example the thoughts of the characters with present, it simply does not work well, and this because we tend to describe our thinking using imperfetto or past tenses.

Let me know what you think about it,

Martina
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Lingua 5B
Lingua 5B  Identity Verified
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 15:25
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
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Same in my language. Dec 29, 2020

We would use historical present in full for event reconstructions, for instance in documentaries or criminology, but not in fiction. It does seem stuck.

If you have concerns and direct access to the author, explain to them where in Italian the present tense won’t work and why, and then ask for their feedback.


Angie Garbarino
Martina Corbetti
 
IrinaN
IrinaN
United States
Local time: 09:25
English to Russian
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Every translator believes that h/s would have said it better… Dec 29, 2020

Then write your own book. This is not just about his style; this is about his pocket as well. He wants to sell his product and hopes to make some money. To answer the other colleague – it will be the translator! This is not a contract or a manual where we can indeed improve things without changing the content. In fact, I’m not sure how to read “change of content” in relation to a fiction book. The content of the book can be described on 1 page. The translator will never be able to prove ... See more
Then write your own book. This is not just about his style; this is about his pocket as well. He wants to sell his product and hopes to make some money. To answer the other colleague – it will be the translator! This is not a contract or a manual where we can indeed improve things without changing the content. In fact, I’m not sure how to read “change of content” in relation to a fiction book. The content of the book can be described on 1 page. The translator will never be able to prove that he improved the book that wouldn’t sell in the end. The author will have every legal right to sue and prove that what was offered to the denying public is not what and how he’d written it. The subject matter of the lawsuit will be not the literate value of the book per se but the fact that it wasn’t the book the author has written. No one would know if his original would have been more popular and a better money-maker with a particular audience because that audience will have had no chance to read it at all. The lawsuit will be dealing with the facts. Once in a while I read these questions here: “Should I shorten the sentences, should I change this and that?” No, you shouldn’t.

Sometimes keeping the original style simply requires a greater literary talent of the translator himself, but this is a different issue.

At the very least, it’s the author who must be consulted, not Proz. If he is still around, that is. He may believe you, praise and thank you wholeheartedly for the rest of his life, or he may go for a second opinion, or he may change the translator… He is God.
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P.L.F. Persio
Angie Garbarino
Tom in London
 
Lingua 5B
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Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 15:25
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English to Croatian
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What’s the style? Dec 29, 2020

Is it self-help, fiction, something else? I assume it’s self-published, translation also?

Otherwise, don’t you worry, it will butchered up by the publisher’s editor. They hate weird flow in translations and the book needs to meet certain standards of the publishing house. I discussed these things with some friends who work in TV production, they often have to rework the entire translation they receive from a freelancer. Again, I have no idea what the format is in the OP’s case.


P.L.F. Persio
 
Elena Feriani
Elena Feriani
Italy
Local time: 15:25
Member
French to Italian
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Example Dec 29, 2020

It would be great if you could provide an example of a sentence in which the present tense would sound odd in Italian, maybe changing a couple of words to "anonymise" it.

Angie Garbarino
 
Jean Dimitriadis
Jean Dimitriadis  Identity Verified
English to French
+ ...
Go forth and be faithful Dec 29, 2020

Whether such a choice is the most appropriate is context-dependent.

I don’t know Italian, but which tense to use in order to best reflect the original text while conforming to appropriate target language usage is a choice that you can make as a translator. Of course, if the author is still around, it is also worth discussing such matters, especially if they happen to know the target language.

All I can say is that historical present is less frequent in English than it
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Whether such a choice is the most appropriate is context-dependent.

I don’t know Italian, but which tense to use in order to best reflect the original text while conforming to appropriate target language usage is a choice that you can make as a translator. Of course, if the author is still around, it is also worth discussing such matters, especially if they happen to know the target language.

All I can say is that historical present is less frequent in English than it is in French. An English to French translator such as myself could definitely be justified to prefer the historical present over another past tense in their translation, literary or otherwise (and what about "passé simple", which does not exist in English, would that be unfaithful too?).

Because I would like to stress this. It is not as if you are considering using a future tense, which would completely alter the meaning of the original in your target language. The historical present is clearly a past tense (and the reader knows it), so you can pick another past tense if it better suits the translation.

So, with some caveats, this choice is up to you. Maybe providing a few examples could help Italian colleagues, although this is more a macro-strategy…

***

Since faithfulness has been mentionned a few times in this thread, I feel compelled to add what I could find in this excellent reference book:

Terminologie de la Traduction / Translation Terminology / Terminología de la Traducción / Terminologie der Übersetzung (written in four languages) [editors, Jean Delisle, Hannelore Lee-Jahnke, Monique C. Cormier]

FAITHFULNESS

The property of a translation that, depending on the translator's intention, respects the presumed sense of the source text as much as possible, and whose expression in the target language conforms to appropriate target language usage.

Note — The criteria used to judge the faithfulness of a text also vary accor­ding to its subject, the translation strategy adopted, the precision of the information communicated, the type, function, and use of the text, its idiosyncrasies, its textuality, its literary qualities, literary trends, the socio-historical context, the perspective of the target audience, norms, and the universe of discourse. All of these variables are interrelated.

Syn. fidelity

[Edited at 2020-12-29 21:01 GMT]
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P.L.F. Persio
Angie Garbarino
 
Angie Garbarino
Angie Garbarino  Identity Verified
Local time: 15:25
Member (2003)
French to Italian
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Yes Dec 29, 2020

Lingua 5B wrote:
@OP Does the historical narrative present tense exist in Italian, and does it have the same function and tone as in English?


It does. Historical present is perfectly ok in Italian, but of course I/we do not know the text.

@OP could you share a sentence not ok in your opinion?

[Edited at 2020-12-29 21:01 GMT]


P.L.F. Persio
 
Tina Vonhof (X)
Tina Vonhof (X)
Canada
Local time: 08:25
Dutch to English
+ ...
A cautionary tale Dec 30, 2020

Below I quote a few relevant paragraphs of an article I saved on my computer called "When right is wrong: On the universal importance of translation" by Dr. Helen Martin (8/4/2015). It may not be directly applicable to your translation but worth considering I think.

"I was having dinner with Lee Child in the Union Square Café, a time-honoured hang-out of writers and publishers in Manhattan. We were talking about translation, specifically the translation into Spanish of his 19th Jac
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Below I quote a few relevant paragraphs of an article I saved on my computer called "When right is wrong: On the universal importance of translation" by Dr. Helen Martin (8/4/2015). It may not be directly applicable to your translation but worth considering I think.

"I was having dinner with Lee Child in the Union Square Café, a time-honoured hang-out of writers and publishers in Manhattan. We were talking about translation, specifically the translation into Spanish of his 19th Jack Reacher novel, "Personal", which had just won some big prize (for the novela negra) in Madrid. He'd already got the title, of course, cunningly conceived to work in multiple languages.

"Personal" is a 1st-person narrative: everything is filtered through the hero's point of view. Reacher is notorious for being a man of few words [...], but this is balanced by him being an outstanding observer. As he zeroes in on enemy territory, his impressions, his reading of clues, are registered in an accumulation of fragmentary non-sentences which not only builds dramatic tension, a sense of imminence, but also shares with the reader the experience of immediacy, of being there, if not in his size 12 boots then at least as his sidekick. And his laconic speech is subtly echoed in the sometimes extreme economy of the writer. Meanwhile the translator helpfully joins short sentences, reduces the number of single-word paragraphs, and restores the missing main verbs, following grammatical decorum faithfully as though under the benevolent dictatorship of a primary school English teacher.

Here is the simplest of examples:
English: 'Something in her voice.'
Spanish: 'Había algo en el tono de su voz.'
Revised translation back into English: 'There was something in the tone of her voice.'
Something has been added, unnecessarily, but more has been taken away. Without the verb, we are inside Reacher's head, tuning in to his sensibility, hyper-sensitive to his evolving relationship with his partner, Casey Nice. With the verb, we retreat to the cool detachment of the omniscient narrator. And surely the explanatory noun phrase just insults the reader.

Similarly:
English: 'Safe enough.'
Spanish: 'Era bastante seguro.'
Revised translation: 'It was safe enough.'
One is lapidary, and keeps up the pace of the narrative. The other is slow, and by comparison lethargic, especially when the effect is cumulative.

I realised, as I was reading, that the Spanish could so easily have stayed much closer to the original, had the translator been brave enough or had the confidence to do things 'wrong'. Doing things wrong, in fact, was the only way of getting it right."
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Elena Feriani
P.L.F. Persio
Riccardo Schiaffino
Angie Garbarino
Agneta Pallinder
Pete in Finland
Adieu
 
Riccardo Schiaffino
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United States
Local time: 08:25
Member (2003)
English to Italian
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"more easy to be read by Italian audience"? Dec 30, 2020


I am thinking of using a past tense for the Italian version. It's of course a big change from the original but it will not affect the content of the novel and would be more easy to be read by Italian audience.


If the author had wanted the text to be "easier to read", they would have done so in English to begin with. Using the present is a deliberate choice on the part of the author (since in English also the "default" choice would be to use the past), and not using it in Italian would betray their stylistic choice. Making the text easier to read by the Italian audience than it is by the original audience is not the translator's job, while being faithful as far as possible to the choices made by the author is.

You also say that the change from present to past "will not affect the content of the novel", as if a novel were only the story it tells, and not the words used to tell it. But the words used and the way they are used are part of the content.


Angie Garbarino
P.L.F. Persio
IrinaN
Agneta Pallinder
Pete in Finland
Martina Corbetti
 


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English to Italian narrative fiction translation: choice of tenses for the Italian translation.







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