| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | Confidentiality with using Google Translate Thread poster: May Chen
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[Edited at 2012-10-08 12:33 GMT]
| | | | Attila Piróth 
France
Local time: 09:57
Member
English to Hungarian
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| Close it? Why? | Oct 8, 2012 |
Dominique Pivard wrote: I think it's time to move this thread to the forum dedicated to machine translation or to close it, as everyone has made their point and the thread is not really related to Wordfast, except for the fact it's the tool the original poster happens to be using.
Right now it's Monday 5:30 AM on the West Coast. The thread was started on Sunday - so I don't think everyone has had sufficient time to make a point.
There are also very interesting and conflicting points of view about a very important question - so I expect further contributions. I just can't imagine any benefit of locking this thread.
Moving it to a different forum makes good sense.
Best,
Attila
| | | | Natalie
Poland
Local time: 09:57
Member (2002)
English to Russian
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MODERATOR SITE LOCALIZER | Re moving / closing | Oct 8, 2012 |
Hi all,
Re closing: there are no reasons for closing the discussion.
Re moving: the thread poster clearly asked about using Google Translate in Wordfast PRO. So there is no reason to move it anywhere.
| | | | | The real subject is confidentiality & GT, not GT & WFP | Oct 8, 2012 |
Natalie wrote:
Re moving: the thread poster clearly asked about using Google Translate in Wordfast PRO. So there is no reason to move it anywhere.
It's just that using Google Translate in Wordfast Pro is like using Google Translate in any other CAT tool. From the point of view of confidentiality, using Wordfast Pro is irrelevant. In fact, no one has mentioned it when making their point. The real subject is about web-based machine translation and NDA's/confidentiality. The purpose of this forum is to discuss about issues related to Wordfast, which clearly isn't happening in this thread.
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Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 09:57
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
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Dominique Pivard wrote:
The real subject is about web-based machine translation and NDA's/confidentiality.
The real subject has now moved to whether the thread should be moved.
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Hi, Fernando!
«I get a order to translate the website of Banana & Coconut. (I hope it does not exist)I get docs and Excel files for this, why the hell should I don't use GT for this?»
Because you would be including a fourth party, Fernando, and you are not allowed to.
The client chose to send you the original by email (he set the rule as he is the owner of the document, that is, he included a third party: the email service). All you have to do is follow ... See more Hi, Fernando!
«I get a order to translate the website of Banana & Coconut. (I hope it does not exist)I get docs and Excel files for this, why the hell should I don't use GT for this?»
Because you would be including a fourth party, Fernando, and you are not allowed to.
The client chose to send you the original by email (he set the rule as he is the owner of the document, that is, he included a third party: the email service). All you have to do is follow his instructions (e.g. "return on Monday AM" / implied: by email). You are not allowed to put the document in an FTP, you are not allowed to use online MT... unless you get the ok from the client, of course. If you ask them and they agree, go ahead. I wouldn't like to see the face of any of my clients if I told them I will park their documents in X's FTP, not to mention the inclusion of an online MT system. So many years of explaining how important we are (and we are), but now a machine can replace us? But this is me and my clients re asking them for permission.
In this case you mention, and because it is a website, why should anybody conclude that that page you are translating can be exposed to other parties? May be the client wants it back and that's it. Who are we to expose it to a fourth party (GT) based on what we assume?
«Confidentiality? Yes, but just for confidential issues...»
All the documents we are assigned by our clients (love letters, P&Ls, letters rogattories, website content, etc.) are confidential. Unless (for whatever reason) you are instructed otherwise (but that would be a real exception). By default, all we receive from our clients belongs to the clients, and we are obliged to guarantee 100% confidentiality (with or without an NDA).
Au ▲ Collapse
| | | | | On the use of MT (online or offline) | Oct 8, 2012 |
Guidelines from a client re MT
This is part of a document (Guidelines) I received from a client last month. I am posting with my client's permission, of course.
1.1 USE OF AUTOMATIC TRANSLATORS
[...]
Under no circumstances may automatic translation tools be used for our translations. If the use of automatic translators is detected, the relationship between [agency] and the translator involved in such practice will cease immediately.
| | | | | But, but, but | Oct 9, 2012 |
Aurora Humarán wrote:
The client chose to send you the original by email (he set the rule as he is the owner of the document, that is, he included a third party: the email service).
1.500 Million Chinese can click the button "Translate it" in his Browser to translate the whole website of Banana & Cockroach but not me?
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Attila Piróth
France
Local time: 09:57
Member
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Fernando Toledo wrote:
1.500 Million Chinese can click the button "Translate it" in his Browser to translate the whole website of Banana & Cockroach but not me?
That's a very valid question, Fernando. What prevents you from asking the client?
If you get their OK, you can go ahead. Or do you find it uncomfortable to pose this question – just like Au said?
Attila
| | | | | And another point | Oct 9, 2012 |
Attila Piróth wrote: Fernando Toledo wrote:
1.500 Million Chinese can click the button "Translate it" in his Browser to translate the whole website of Banana & Cockroach but not me? That's a very valid question, Fernando. What prevents you from asking the client? If you get their OK, you can go ahead. Or do you find it uncomfortable to pose this question – just like Au said? Attila
Everybody knows that you can translate any site just clicking a button, and also everyone knows the translation is a joke (if there is no real translated pendant) or just good enough to understand it. If I can pick 10 % of this bad translation (sometimes a better translation that I could offer) I can save 10% of my time. It is just a click, see, get some ideas and bye.
Otherwise if the website is already translated into your language, and the job is just to change some details and to add some new stuff. If you want to conserve the style of this site you should consult GT.
I am just trying to say that, as usual in life, there is no black and white but grey tones.
Regards
| | | | kmtext
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:57
English
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| Client confidentiality | Oct 9, 2012 |
I must admit I'm not a fan of machine translations at the best of times, so perhaps that colours my perspective here.
The way I see it, there's no difference between using a feature like Google Translate and passing on your document to another translator. Regardless of whether or not they disclose the content to anyone else, "someone" other than you, the person contracted to perform the translation, has had access to it, and that is a breach of confidentiality.
Regardl... See more I must admit I'm not a fan of machine translations at the best of times, so perhaps that colours my perspective here.
The way I see it, there's no difference between using a feature like Google Translate and passing on your document to another translator. Regardless of whether or not they disclose the content to anyone else, "someone" other than you, the person contracted to perform the translation, has had access to it, and that is a breach of confidentiality.
Regardless of what the final use of the translation will be, whether it's for a website, a press release or a private letter, unless the client has stated specifically that an on-line translation system may be used, you should assume that they don't consent to its use.
If I found out that a translator I employed was using GT without my permission, I would find another translator. ▲ Collapse
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Fernando Toledo wrote:
1.500 Million Chinese can click the button "Translate it" in his Browser to translate the whole website of Banana & Cockroach but not me?
Whenever I am curious about what a Polish colleague is saying to a Polish friend in the Facebook wall, I click "See translation" like the one billion users of FB. Sure!
When I am in charge of my client's documents, I have nothing to do with the gisting mob. I am a professional translator and behave as such.
Regarding blacks and whites, I agree it is better to live our life knowing that there are greys. However, there are inevitable blacks or whites: I cannot be a bit pregnant (I am pregnant or I am not pregnant). Our clients' documents are not a bit confidential or very confidential (They are all confidential).
Au
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Aurora Humarán wrote:
I cannot be a bit pregnant (I am pregnant or I am not pregnant). Our clients' documents are not a bit confidential or very confidential (They are all confidential).
Au
So if I can not let translate "I like to eat potatoes" from the very, very confidential document in GT, why can we search for potatoes in Google?
Is this not a little pregnant?
I see only translators in panic, cause it should be clear for all... in a few years we don't need to ask for this "problem" anymore. Let this topic open and we see us in 10 years...
In the Psychohistory of Asimov (The Foundation) would be a very easy to solve equation to see the future of the profession (as it is actually) and Darwin would be happy to see the irremediable mutation of this profession.
| | | | | The key is surely "disclosure" | Oct 9, 2012 |
Strikes me this discussion is, in fact, not so much about confidentiality per se, but whether the use of GT etc. constitutes disclosure.
And your decision on that aspect can only depend on what you know, or think you know, about GT's internal workings. Some obviously think Google don't keep the source, it is merely transient or ephemeral within the GT machine, and therefore it is not disclosed. Some think Google keep it or might keep it, and therefore it is at least potentially disc... See more Strikes me this discussion is, in fact, not so much about confidentiality per se, but whether the use of GT etc. constitutes disclosure.
And your decision on that aspect can only depend on what you know, or think you know, about GT's internal workings. Some obviously think Google don't keep the source, it is merely transient or ephemeral within the GT machine, and therefore it is not disclosed. Some think Google keep it or might keep it, and therefore it is at least potentially disclosed. I don't think this can be resolved without knowing exactly what actually happens to source texts shoved into GT.
To adopt a well-worn scenario - if I read out my confidential source text in the forest, but no-one hears it, is that disclosure....? ▲ Collapse
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Fernando Toledo wrote:
I see only translators in panic, cause it should be clear for all... in a few years we don't need to ask for this "problem" anymore. Let this topic open and we see us in 10 years...
I understood we are talking about translators who use online MT in 2012. 
Au
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