| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | тараканье молоко - coackroach milk Thread poster: Elisa Comito
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Marina Aleyeva 
Israel
Local time: 19:59
Member (2006)
English to Russian
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By the way, "up their elbows" looks suspiciously weird to me. I think the Russian original referred to the elbow, which is an old Russian unit of length.
| | | | Elisa Comito
Local time: 18:59
English to Italian
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TOPIC STARTER
Marina Aleyeva wrote:
By the way, "up their elbows" looks suspiciously weird to me. I think the Russian original referred to the elbow, which is an old Russian unit of length.
Thanks again Marina. On the whole, a true rebus!!
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Can't he just be lying on his stomach supporting himself on his elbows...... It is true that elbow in Russian can be a unit of length too, but here the sentence structure does not not suggest that, to my mind.
[Edited at 2011-01-05 16:48 GMT]
| | | | Marina Aleyeva
Israel
Local time: 19:59
Member (2006)
English to Russian
+ ...
elena_patineuse wrote:
Can't he just be lying on his stomach supporting himself on his elbows......
There is nothing in the sentence to suggest that. "lay about up their elbows in cockroach milk" implies being covered up to one's elbows (something I can hardly imagine in a lying position), not supporting oneself on elbows. It does not make sense that way. Hence my suggestion, supported by one of the two examples I found. Note also the "полулокоть" (half elbow) in that example which is clearly a unit of length.
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Actually what made me think it is an elbow and not a unit of length, is the preposition (по полулокоть, and not на полулокоть). The expression seems similar to others like... по колено, по пояс, etc which mention parts of body, and not units of length.
Anyway, be it part of body or unit of length, the hero seems to be lying half-drowned or more than half drowned in that milk
| | | | Elisa Comito
Local time: 18:59
English to Italian
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TOPIC STARTER | Tula cookie - Tul'skij prjanik (?) | Jan 22, 2011 |
Hello everybody! I profit again of your collective wisdom to ask a new question.
In my book a woman complains about her son's girlfriend. The woman has been recalling a family tradition. Then comes the sentence:
"It was just one of the many old steppe traditions that Olga wanted to teach her future daughter-in-law, whoever that might be - but this girl here, dumb as a Tula cookie, simply could not or would not catch on. "
Why is the Tula cookie used as a s... See more Hello everybody! I profit again of your collective wisdom to ask a new question.
In my book a woman complains about her son's girlfriend. The woman has been recalling a family tradition. Then comes the sentence:
"It was just one of the many old steppe traditions that Olga wanted to teach her future daughter-in-law, whoever that might be - but this girl here, dumb as a Tula cookie, simply could not or would not catch on. "
Why is the Tula cookie used as a synonym for dumbness? Might that be because the girl was like a cookie doll, pretty but mindless? ▲ Collapse
| | | | Natalie
Poland
Local time: 18:59
Member (2002)
English to Russian
+ ...
Moderator of this forum SITE LOCALIZER
May I suggest using KudoZ for such questions?
Thank you,
Natalia
| | | | Elisa Comito
Local time: 18:59
English to Italian
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TOPIC STARTER
Natalia,
kudozs are not made for cultural discussions. It is not a term or a literal translation that I need, I would like to understand the concept, the cultural reason why "Tula cookie" is used to indicate a dumb girl. I also would like to know if it is an idiomatic saying or if the author just used an image she liked (or found in specific sources, as she did with the coackroach milk).
To ask terminological help I have many lists besides kudoz but, not working with Russian, ... See more Natalia,
kudozs are not made for cultural discussions. It is not a term or a literal translation that I need, I would like to understand the concept, the cultural reason why "Tula cookie" is used to indicate a dumb girl. I also would like to know if it is an idiomatic saying or if the author just used an image she liked (or found in specific sources, as she did with the coackroach milk).
To ask terminological help I have many lists besides kudoz but, not working with Russian, I have not subscribed to any Russian translators' list to whom I may adress wider questions. Indeed I ask to collegues who translate from Russian but I think the experience of Russian persons is an additional valuable resource, that's why I posted here.
I would like to understand what is implied in the "Tula cookie" reference to decide what might be the best way of rendering the sense in Italian, if it's possible to keep the reference to Tula or if it's better to substitute it with an Italian corresponding expression.
Best regard,
Elisa ▲ Collapse
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| tula cookie expressions | Jan 22, 2011 |
I have never heard any expression on dumbness mentioning tula cookies. Google search revealed some but they do not mean exactly the same as the one in your book:
Даром, неграмотный, а пряники ест писаные.
He is illiterate, still he eats cookies with patterns.
Мы люди неграмотные, едим пряники неписаные.
We are illiterate people, so we eat cookies without drawings (pisany prianik means a... See more I have never heard any expression on dumbness mentioning tula cookies. Google search revealed some but they do not mean exactly the same as the one in your book:
Даром, неграмотный, а пряники ест писаные.
He is illiterate, still he eats cookies with patterns.
Мы люди неграмотные, едим пряники неписаные.
We are illiterate people, so we eat cookies without drawings (pisany prianik means a cookie with some image or pattern drawn on top of it)
Мы люди простые, едим пряники толстые.
We are common (simple) people, so we eat thick cookies
Here is the link with the proverbs
http://12mesyatcev.ru/poslovicy-i-pogovorki-uchene-nauka.html ▲ Collapse
| | | | Elisa Comito
Local time: 18:59
English to Italian
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TOPIC STARTER
Thank you very much for your help, Elena.
| | | | Daria Bontch-Osmolovskaia (X)
Australia
Local time: 02:59
English
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| Tulskiy cookie | Jan 24, 2011 |
I agree with Elena, I've never heard or read anywhere about someone being "as dumb as a Tula cookie"! (or pryanik, or cake, whatever the translation may be). It's quite possible that the writer just make up the expression and really liked it, it sounds kind of Russian...
Not sure that 'cookie' is the best translation for the Tula cakes either... as you can see, they don't look anything like cookies! In cook books, th... See more I agree with Elena, I've never heard or read anywhere about someone being "as dumb as a Tula cookie"! (or pryanik, or cake, whatever the translation may be). It's quite possible that the writer just make up the expression and really liked it, it sounds kind of Russian...
Not sure that 'cookie' is the best translation for the Tula cakes either... as you can see, they don't look anything like cookies! In cook books, they are usually called spice cakes.
http://www.pryanik-tula.ru/content/image/superf.jpg ▲ Collapse
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elena_patineuse wrote:
I have never heard any expression on dumbness mentioning tula cookies.
Agree.
Strange Russian text: seems, author 'invents' his own 'Russian folklore'.
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Elisa Comito
Local time: 18:59
English to Italian
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TOPIC STARTER | spiced vs. dumb | Jan 25, 2011 |
Daria Bontch-Osmolovskaia wrote: I agree with Elena, I've never heard or read anywhere about someone being "as dumb as a Tula cookie"! (or pryanik, or cake, whatever the translation may be). It's quite possible that the writer just make up the expression and really liked it, it sounds kind of Russian... Not sure that 'cookie' is the best translation for the Tula cakes either... as you can see, they don't look anything like cookies! In cook books, they are usually called spice cakes. http://www.pryanik-tula.ru/content/image/superf.jpg
Exactly Daria, and that's another complication in rendering the image. Because in Italian we have a word, "insulso", which means at the same time "without taste/salt" and, in the figurative sens, "useless/insignificant/with no sense" which would be perfect for other types of cookies (provided I decide to mantain the Tula reference). But the fact that Tula "cookies" are spiced makes it all more difficult!
| | | | Elisa Comito
Local time: 18:59
English to Italian
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TOPIC STARTER
Nikolai Muraviev wrote:
Strange Russian text: seems, author 'invents' his own 'Russian folklore'.
Yes, it is partly so. The author's Russia is Russia trasfigurated by her own imagination. But the fact is that there are some parts which are historical and factual and others which are imaginative, and I must render both. In addition, since she also uses old sources (and memories of Russian immigrants in the U.S.) it's difficult for me, not reading Russian and not being able to research on the Russian web, to follow all the traces.
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[quote]Elisa Comito wrote:
But the fact that Tula "cookies" are spiced makes it all more difficult!
Actually, they are not hot. They are spiced with ginger first of all, and vanilla, and other similar spices. So they have a slight ginger flavour and they are sweet. Not tasteless though.
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