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Translating a Manual with complicated layout
Thread poster: Firas Allouzi
Lakoff (X)
Lakoff (X)
Germany
Easy as pie ... Mar 12, 2014

and a smooth transfer

José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:
  • The Infix Pro process. Translator exports the text from the PDF into tagged either TXT or XML files, and gets the PDF tagged as well. They translate these files in any way they like. Then they import the translated file back into the PDF, and do the necessary layout adjust... See more
  • and a smooth transfer

    José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:
  • The Infix Pro process. Translator exports the text from the PDF into tagged either TXT or XML files, and gets the PDF tagged as well. They translate these files in any way they like. Then they import the translated file back into the PDF, and do the necessary layout adjustments.


  • This is standard word & content processing. Infix Pro enables us to stay up-to-date with the latest state of technology.

    Salute.

    [Edited at 2014-03-12 10:47 GMT]
    Collapse


     
    TargamaT team
    TargamaT team  Identity Verified
    France
    Local time: 07:31
    Member (2010)
    English to Arabic
    + ...
    LtR to RtL Mar 12, 2014

    Thanks for the excellent comments.

    However, for RtL translations we need to inverse the document as well. For this we prefer to have the original document in order to give it the logic of RtL document too.


     
    José Henrique Lamensdorf
    José Henrique Lamensdorf  Identity Verified
    Brazil
    Local time: 03:31
    English to Portuguese
    + ...
    In memoriam
    Not that easy... Mar 12, 2014

    Lakoff wrote:

    and a smooth transfer

  • The Infix Pro process. Translator exports the text from the PDF into tagged either TXT or XML files, and gets the PDF tagged as well. They translate these files in any way they like. Then they import the translated file back into the PDF, and do the necessary layout adjustments.


  • This is standard word & content processing. Infix Pro enables us to stay up-to-date with the latest state of technology.


    Actually, it is not THAT easy.

    Some people want full automation. So they might expect that this export - translate - import will result in a finished PDF. While this is possible, most likely it will only happen in PDFs that, if translated directly with a compatible CAT tool, provided this result.

    The reasons are that PDF files have several peculiarities that should be readjusted after translation. I am fresh out of a 22,000 words, 76 pages somewhat complex PDF translation whose contents are not confidential, so I am developing a well illustrated page for my web site to show the major issues in this process abd the procedures involved.

    Here are a few quirks of PDF files that will have to be addressed:

    - A PDF file usually has embedded only the characters from each font it uses. So if "republican" is the only word using crazyfont.ttf there, you'll only have these 10 chars from this font embedded. If you want to translate it into PT/ES, you won't have the "O" available to add at the end, unless you have Crazyfont installed in your computer. If Crazyfont costs, say, $260, you might have to replace it with e.g. the free insanefont.ttf.

    - A PDF file is built on PostScript printing, and the printer doesn't print the white in the paper. Therefore text blocks end on the rightmost letter of each paragraph, not at the right margin. After translation, paragraphs have to be adjusted, so that word(s) from the second line may reflow to the first, and so on.

    - Quite often the end of a line does not include an [Enter]; line breaks occur at the right delimiter on that text block or line. So text reflow upon font change or translation may have to be fixed manually.

    - You'll see italic, bold, bold italic, and other font variants. However you'll never see an underscored font variant. Though the way to underscore text in most - if not all - programs is a button together with italic, bold, etc., in a PDF the underscore will be a loose - and often misplaced after translation - LINE, which will have to be deleted and the corresponding text will have to be underscored again.


    So all these and many others are details that must be checked and fixed, this process - in spite of the countless tools and methods offered by Infix - is manual, and should have a cost associated to it. A translator who is clever with DTP will be able to do it with relative ease, but this shouldn't be done for free.


     
    Lakoff (X)
    Lakoff (X)
    Germany
    José, have you ever considered writing a White Paper? Mar 12, 2014

    To cut a long story short, I would like to emphasize that XML has the potential to get you out of the font issue.

    Do you still use plain text in any cases?


     
    José Henrique Lamensdorf
    José Henrique Lamensdorf  Identity Verified
    Brazil
    Local time: 03:31
    English to Portuguese
    + ...
    In memoriam
    A colorful paper Mar 12, 2014

    Lakoff wrote:

    To cut a long story short, I would like to emphasize that XML has the potential to get you out of the font issue.

    Do you still use plain text in any cases?


    As I said, I am writing a very colorful e-paper on the process for my web site. I'll post the URL here when I get it finished and uploaded.

    The difference between having Infix export to XML or TXT is shown on this old page, about midway of the page, still using Word 2003.

    It is just a matter of tag formatting. Infix developers at Iceni tested it with both Trados and DejaVu. I use WordFast Classic.

    The key difference is that XML can be translated immediately as-is. XML worked in Word 2003, but no longer in Word 2007, with WFC. All CAT tools skip the XML tags, but not the ones on TXT, of course.

    So the exported TXT requires "insulating" the tags (using S&R on Word) for WFC with "marching red ants" on Word 2003, or with "25% gray highlight" on Word 2007, and setting these as "untranslatable" on WFC. Of course, saving to DOC/DOCX is a must to preserve it. After CAT cleanup, they can be saved as TXT, which will automatically remove all that "insulation".

    Font embedding are a PDF issue, not XML/TXT from Infix. The tags cover all fonts used, either way. As I translate most often from EN into PT, the text gains all the accents and cedillas, which didn't (and don't) exist in some fancy-looking EN-only - hence accents-impaired - fonts. I think PT is the only language that uses tildes on top of As & Os (ÃãÕõ), so though FR and TR use the C-cedilla (Çç), the font must have been created with PT in mind too.


     
    Lakoff (X)
    Lakoff (X)
    Germany
    A USP ... Mar 12, 2014

    My mind was on profane font formatting issues, not on language specific problems.

    Why do you work with WFC & MS Word?

    How did you find out about the marching red ants trick?

    I appreciate the source.

    However, I am a lost cause.

    Tags and fonts have never given me any trouble.

    Salute.


     
    José Henrique Lamensdorf
    José Henrique Lamensdorf  Identity Verified
    Brazil
    Local time: 03:31
    English to Portuguese
    + ...
    In memoriam
    Answers Mar 12, 2014

    At the risk of hijacking this thread, some answers here might be useful for people translating complex PDF files.

    Lakoff wrote:
    My mind was on profane font formatting issues, not on language specific problems.


    It's about translation here. Whenever you translate a file with a partially embedded font like in any decent PDF, you'll miss the characters that are not embedded. Unless you have the complete font, it's better to replace the font entirely.

    Lakoff wrote:
    Why do you work with WFC & MS Word?


    In a nutshell: If it ain't broke, I don't fix nor replace it.

    I began using WFC when it was free, some 10 years ago. Sort of got used to that crappy $19.99 shareware-looking user-unfriendly interface, and have been buying/renewing licenses ever since.

    I hate Trados mostly because of too many outsourcers that demand it absolutely to tell me the time of the day, even when NO CAT tool will be useful (e.g. script-less video, or handwritten docs). Then SDL sent me a long questionnaire on my work, I answered it as accurately as I could, and they gave me the final answer: It would take Trados 13 years to pay for itself in my case, not considering the mandatory upgrade every year.

    I've used free Passolo a client provided me with, didn't like it at all. A sort of wannabe CAT tool, or maybe I didn't get the spirit of it.

    I've used a portable MemoQ license from a client, it's pretty good, probably my next option. However now it demands only the latest release of Windows 8 and Office 2014 on cutting-edge hardware, I think. I'm still stuck with Windows XP. I tried Vista, 7, and 8 on the family notebooks, didn't like any of them. I'll wait until Microsoft scores again with a GOOD Windows, and will upgrade my entire system.

    Word, unfortunately, is the market standard. It is by far the worst word processor I've used so far since I began using computers, in the Apple II days. Were that not enough, it gets worse at every version, W97 was mostly functional, 2003 was really bad, and 2007 is even shakier. Nevertheless, I'll cling to it for as long as I can. Scared from what I heard about the newer versions.

    If I gave up on Word, the market standard, I'd be out of a job.

    Lakoff wrote:
    How did you find out about the marching red ants trick?


    It's not a trick, merely a WFC procedure that existed until Word 2003 (endorsing my view of Microsoft's continuous impairment). Word 2007 uses the 25% gray highlight, which has been or will be probably discontinued in newer versions, because it is useful.

    I learned it from a friend, colleague and frequent work partner, who is a WF instructor as well. His web site contains many tips & tricks for WF, however all in PT-BR.


     
    José Henrique Lamensdorf
    José Henrique Lamensdorf  Identity Verified
    Brazil
    Local time: 03:31
    English to Portuguese
    + ...
    In memoriam
    The colorful white paper on Translating a PDF with Infix is online Mar 16, 2014

    José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:

    As I said, I am writing a very colorful e-paper on the process for my web site. I'll post the URL here when I get it finished and uploaded.


    Done!

    It may be a little sketchy and perhaps superficial, but my colorful white paper on Translating a PDF with Infix is up and running.


    A versão em português brasileiro está em http://www.lamensdorf.com.br/traduzindo-pdf.html (= its PT-BR version).


     
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