ovo za sobom

English translation: This...

16:54 Oct 6, 2006
Bosnian to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Poetry & Literature
Bosnian term or phrase: ovo za sobom
In the context:

"Ovo za sobom povodi njihovo izvrtanje znacenja..."

Hvala unaprijed!
Eric Bullington
Local time: 08:35
English translation:This...
Explanation:
This leads to their distorting the meaning (of)...

(Or perhaps what the author meant by "njihovo izvrtanje znacenja" was "a distortion of their meaning". )

"Za sobom" doesn't really mean anything here. It's filler, possibly used for emphasis or to increase the word count. Just two disposable words that can be left out without changing the meaning of the sentence one iota.

It's not the same as "samo po sebi", which is "in/of itself".

HTH

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2006-10-06 18:03:06 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Correction: "Za sobom" is not filler, as the phrase is "povesti za sobom" (take others along, lead the way). But here it means "lead to" or "entail".

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 days6 hrs (2006-10-09 23:09:06 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Does the translation "This draws others to their distortion of the meaning of...." make sense here? Obviously this is not a literal translation but I think it captures the meaning.

It's impossible to say without the context. For one thing, there's nothing in the sentence per se that indicates that "njihovo" refers to "others".

Given what we have, I would say that "draws others to their etc." would be overinterpretation.

What is certain is that:

(a) they, whoever they are, are distorting the meaning of something; and
(b) this, whatever it is, entails or results in such distorting/distortion.

As I said, the infinitive form of the phrase used is "povesti (za sobom)", which, AFAIK, can only mean "to lead, to have others follow you" and is only used for persons, not things.

This is the first time I've seen the phrase used in its imperfective/frequentative form - povoditi za sobom (literally, to have others follow you not once - but over and over again). I'm not saying it's incorrect. I'm just saying I've never seen it used before.

That said, I still don't think that the sentence means that "this", whatever it is, draws "them" to distort the meaning... I am more inclined to think that this is merely the author's fancy way of saying "Ovo za sobom povlači" (the usual cliche), which means "This entails". Google is hardly 100% reliable, but there are 16,000 hits for "za sobom povlači" vs. 2 hits for "za sobom povodi", one of which is this example, while the other is apparently used in a religious context in the aformentioned sense (leading others over and over again).

But then again, the difference between "this draws them to their distortion of the meaning of" and "this results in their distorting the meaning of" may not be that important after all.

Anyway, more context is always appreciated.



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 days (2006-10-11 07:24:04 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

This little bit of context casts a completely new light on the fragment in question.

"Ovo" refers to the "odbacivanje", "nepriznavanje" and "neobaziranje" in the preceding sentence. "Njihovo" refers to whoever is doing the odbacivanje etc.

So, "they" reject and fight the te'wil, refuse to acknowledge the view(s) of the imams and disregard modes of expression in Arabic. As a result of their doing all this, they distort the meaning of kur'anski ajeti etc….. the purpose of that distortion being to establish and make a case for etc…

Does this make sense?

I don't see how else the first part of the sentence (Ovo za sobom…. Poslanikove a.s.) would tie in with what follows (ka onome sto su…).

Anyway, I hope this was of at least some help.


Selected response from:

Pavle Perencevic
Canada
Local time: 05:35
Grading comment
Thank you Pavle! I appreciate your very detailed explanation. This was a tricky passage for me.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +3This or It
Meriz
4 +3This...
Pavle Perencevic
5This itself
Chicago-Bosnian


Discussion entries: 2





  

Answers


1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
This or It


Explanation:
I agree with the above answer, and can be connected to the cleft sentence (It was this that distorted their meaning of...) if you want to stress the previous sentence/subject/situation..in Bosnian when you start the sentence with ''Ovo za sobom povodi..'' means that you want the emphasize something, like when you start it with ''It...'' in English

Meriz
Local time: 13:35
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in BosnianBosnian
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thank you, Meriz, for your response.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Ulvija Tanovic (X): for added emphasis you can also use: This in turn leads to...
22 hrs
  -> Hvala/Thanks!

agree  PoveyTrans (X)
2 days 1 hr
  -> Hvala/Thanks!

agree  Gordana Smith
2 days 3 hrs
  -> Hvala/Thanks!
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

31 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
This...


Explanation:
This leads to their distorting the meaning (of)...

(Or perhaps what the author meant by "njihovo izvrtanje znacenja" was "a distortion of their meaning". )

"Za sobom" doesn't really mean anything here. It's filler, possibly used for emphasis or to increase the word count. Just two disposable words that can be left out without changing the meaning of the sentence one iota.

It's not the same as "samo po sebi", which is "in/of itself".

HTH

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2006-10-06 18:03:06 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Correction: "Za sobom" is not filler, as the phrase is "povesti za sobom" (take others along, lead the way). But here it means "lead to" or "entail".

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 days6 hrs (2006-10-09 23:09:06 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Does the translation "This draws others to their distortion of the meaning of...." make sense here? Obviously this is not a literal translation but I think it captures the meaning.

It's impossible to say without the context. For one thing, there's nothing in the sentence per se that indicates that "njihovo" refers to "others".

Given what we have, I would say that "draws others to their etc." would be overinterpretation.

What is certain is that:

(a) they, whoever they are, are distorting the meaning of something; and
(b) this, whatever it is, entails or results in such distorting/distortion.

As I said, the infinitive form of the phrase used is "povesti (za sobom)", which, AFAIK, can only mean "to lead, to have others follow you" and is only used for persons, not things.

This is the first time I've seen the phrase used in its imperfective/frequentative form - povoditi za sobom (literally, to have others follow you not once - but over and over again). I'm not saying it's incorrect. I'm just saying I've never seen it used before.

That said, I still don't think that the sentence means that "this", whatever it is, draws "them" to distort the meaning... I am more inclined to think that this is merely the author's fancy way of saying "Ovo za sobom povlači" (the usual cliche), which means "This entails". Google is hardly 100% reliable, but there are 16,000 hits for "za sobom povlači" vs. 2 hits for "za sobom povodi", one of which is this example, while the other is apparently used in a religious context in the aformentioned sense (leading others over and over again).

But then again, the difference between "this draws them to their distortion of the meaning of" and "this results in their distorting the meaning of" may not be that important after all.

Anyway, more context is always appreciated.



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 days (2006-10-11 07:24:04 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

This little bit of context casts a completely new light on the fragment in question.

"Ovo" refers to the "odbacivanje", "nepriznavanje" and "neobaziranje" in the preceding sentence. "Njihovo" refers to whoever is doing the odbacivanje etc.

So, "they" reject and fight the te'wil, refuse to acknowledge the view(s) of the imams and disregard modes of expression in Arabic. As a result of their doing all this, they distort the meaning of kur'anski ajeti etc….. the purpose of that distortion being to establish and make a case for etc…

Does this make sense?

I don't see how else the first part of the sentence (Ovo za sobom…. Poslanikove a.s.) would tie in with what follows (ka onome sto su…).

Anyway, I hope this was of at least some help.




Pavle Perencevic
Canada
Local time: 05:35
Native speaker of: Native in SerbianSerbian
PRO pts in category: 16
Grading comment
Thank you Pavle! I appreciate your very detailed explanation. This was a tricky passage for me.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  A.Đapo
2 hrs
  -> Thanks. I was initially confused because the usual cliche is "Ovo/to za sobom povlači..." (16,000 Google hits for "za sobom povlači" vs. 2 hits for "za sobom povodi", one of which is this example, while the other one has a different meaning).

agree  Miomira Brankovic
12 hrs
  -> Thanks.

agree  Gordana Smith
2 days 4 hrs
  -> Thanks.
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

7 days   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
This itself


Explanation:
This itself - is used as emphasis, condition or state in which something is taking place...

"This..." or "It" without any other specifiactions are not emphasising enough I am afraid... I hope this helps.

Example sentence(s):
  • This itself deserves ...
  • Ovo za sobom ( samo ovo ) zasluzuje ...
Chicago-Bosnian
United States
Local time: 07:35
Native speaker of: Native in BosnianBosnian
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