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Explanation: The phrase is commonly used in marketing to describe barter deals/partner promotions/joint promotions in which two companies exchange (as opposed to pay each other for) goods, services or data, in order to achieve a common business objective - normally by way of a jointly-organised activity. The trade conference or exhibition (beurs) would in this case be seen as a joint activity of a sort - in any event one that brings people together who are interested on exchanging information with each other. The phrase is lifted from its strict context, thus the quotation marks (if they are from the source text). One could also use <at no cost>, <without obligation>, etc, depending on the overall context and how you want to put this sentence together. (As this is an unusual application of the phrase I can find no exact references. The one below just shows the use of <barter> in a promotional context.)
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Thanks for a quick answer and the accompanying reference. It enabled me to provide an adequate translation on time. 4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer
even if there were no quotation marks (I think they are the asker's), 'met gesloten beurzen' should not be understood literally (it just means imo they won't go there to do business but to find out if they may be able to do business at some future time) The tone of the text is imo neutral, it is meant to inform, I don't think there is play on words in play.
I took Moira's "without any money changing hands" not literally.
It would be important to know whether those quotation marks are the author's or the translator's. It they're the author's, then I would think that he doesn't literally mean that no money is changing hands (why highlight that fact in this situation?), but in some way figuratively (though its a weird metaphor).
Sorry, but 'exploring' or 'sounding out' is already covered in the sentence by 'onderzoeken wat ze voor elkaar kunnen betekenen'. Let's go back: The reason this entire sentence was written was to add value to the conference in the eyes of attendees by underlining yet another benefit, in this case free information exchange amongst attendees. It's a benefit of all such conferences. It's why you go. 'Trading experiences' is too broad and unbusinesslike and, again, is simply not the meaning of the queried phrase. You don't pay each other for experiences and so trading them, 'free', is not a benefit and arguably, was not the intention of the original writer.
'met gesloten beurzen' means in this context they will not, or not yet, proceed to doing business with one another their interactions will be exploratory and non-commercial in nature
I agree with Olly's 'sound each other out' I partially agree with Olly's 'going at it hammer and tongs', 'partially' because this may imply there may be some commercial activity but there will be no commercial activity at all: met gesloten beurzen as Moira said "without any money changing hands"
I forgot to mention: In my opinion there is no play on words here.
Or something like '... sound each other out in a non-formal setting...' or something better to convey that they aren't going at it (doing business) hammer and tongs.
It's not just for my sake. When you post a question on KudoZ, you're given detailed instructions on how to provide context, and you chose not to follow them.
Not sure that it conveys the idea of a 'tight purse'. According to vDale: elkaar met gesloten beurzen betalen settle on mutual terms, conduct a paper transaction or dikke vD: wederzijdse schulden zo vereffenen dat geen overdracht van geld nodig is i.e. they can have an informal chat with one another about potential business opportunities (without any money changing hands). I'd be tempted to move away from it to something like "during the trade fair, there will be a 'fair' amount of time to 'trade' experiences to find out...". Just an idea!
Christopher Smith (X)
United Kingdom
ASKER
Dutch context
18:19 Jan 11, 2011
For Phil Goddard's sake: (Heading) XXXX maakt brochure voor de XXXXXX Tijdens de Beursvloer [plaatsnaam] kunnen ondernemers en organisaties ‘met gesloten beurzen’ onderzoeken wat zij voor elkaar kunnen betekenen. Hieruit volgde een match tussen XXXX en de XXXX. The 'X's represent the names of organizations. There really is no more than that.
We need DUTCH context please, not your English interpretation - you still haven't explained what you mean by "a kind of trade fair". You say "the sentences that follow don't give any clue - well, maybe not to you, but they might help us a lot.
Christopher Smith (X)
United Kingdom
ASKER
My own guess
18:10 Jan 11, 2011
I think there is obviously a play on words here, but my guess would be that organisations with 'gesloten beurzen' have 'tight purses', i.e. they are on a tight budget. I was only wondering if someone knew this as a stock phrase.
Christopher Smith (X)
United Kingdom
ASKER
More context
18:07 Jan 11, 2011
There is really not much to go on. One organisation has designed and produced a brochure for a municipality that is holding a kind of trade fair. The sentences that follow do not give any clue either. If I had more context I would probably not have needed to ask :-)
Is it important to convey the idea of 'met gesloten beurzen' - does it relate to the type of trade fair, for instance? Otherwise you could just play around with 'trade' or 'fair' ' or 'show' phrases, as translating the play on words is virtually impossible. BTW, how are you translating beurs to give us something to hook onto? Trade fair / trade show / exhibition...
We need proper context, please - what is this about, and what comes before and after this sentence?
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Explanation: The phrase is commonly used in marketing to describe barter deals/partner promotions/joint promotions in which two companies exchange (as opposed to pay each other for) goods, services or data, in order to achieve a common business objective - normally by way of a jointly-organised activity. The trade conference or exhibition (beurs) would in this case be seen as a joint activity of a sort - in any event one that brings people together who are interested on exchanging information with each other. The phrase is lifted from its strict context, thus the quotation marks (if they are from the source text). One could also use <at no cost>, <without obligation>, etc, depending on the overall context and how you want to put this sentence together. (As this is an unusual application of the phrase I can find no exact references. The one below just shows the use of <barter> in a promotional context.)
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 52 mins (2011-01-11 18:16:19 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
