This site uses cookies.
Some of these cookies are essential to the operation of the site,
while others help to improve your experience by providing insights into how the site is being used.
For more information, please see the ProZ.com privacy policy.
This question was closed without grading. Reason: No acceptable answer
Dutch to English translations [PRO] Social Sciences - Insurance
Dutch term or phrase:verlengd minderjarige
This is part of a list of "types of persons" that can be selected in an insurance questionaire. It seems to be some kind of legal category in Belgium and the Netherlands. The only thing I have been able to find in English so far is "extended minority". "extended minor" might also work (and would be more in line with the NL syntax) but does not get any reasonable hits on UK Google. It appears to refer to a person that is probably not considered mature and may therefore be subject to guardianship.
Monority is the translation of the French, and extended minority is a literal translation of that, but as Alexander also notes, as I have, minority just isn't used in this way, it's obvious why, minority is equated with groups not forming the majority, which a small group of children going into adulthood with some type of inability to manage own affairs is, but minority is not correct. However, youth under guardianship is not what it is either, it is an adult who reaches the age of (here) 18 yet does not assume the rights of an adult, the reason being that the individual is in one way or another incapable of taking responsibility as an adult, this is not about an adult of 30 being placed under a guardianship order, it is about (not) going from minor status to adult status, thus an adult being given the status of a minor aged 15 (see the actual BW file). Adult under guardianship order (as extension of non-adult status)
Besides, I can't imagine the readers of my sound references would have any difficulty understanding what 'extended minority' refers to/means in these contexts, would you?
I don't mean to say there's no room for other options.
I realise that the term is difficult to translate, but I object to the word "minority" in one of the suggested translations, because it is so easily misunderstood. I finally used "youth under guardianship" as the closest approximation, youth here being something more than a "minor". The customer appears to like the solution.
My only problem now is, who do I give the points to? Since the "experts" have not arrived at a conclusive answer, I think I will just close the question, without giving points and without a gloss.
Hi Barend, yes minority is, strictly speaking, correct, though I cannot see it being used in English (British English) I could be wrong, I'd say the word is minor, as that is instantly clear. The concepts as laid out in Belgian Dutch, involve matters that a Belgian person would have to know or look up but it will not mislead that person into thinking it is simply adult guardianship, in the French version of those legal documents from the BW, the word indeed is minority, yet I wonder as I'm not a French speaker whether it conveys the same sense, instantly, that English does, because if a person hears the word minor, he/she will know what it means, but hearing the word minority is going to conjure up different ideas and I'm not sure it'd be that easy to work out what they mean in the forms these terms are used in. However, working on your version, and replacing minority with minor, didn't work either, as it too can mislead, making one imagine having a lesser status, minor status. Perhaps: Adult guardianship order as extension of minor (non-adult) status
Yes, only I haven''t offered a final option, the bit that makes it clear that the status is a prolongation of what was, thus the child though becoming an adult is being placed under a guardianship order that is an extension of what the child had, meaning no rights to sign anything, as is normal for children, means to say 'adult guardianship' alone does not reach what the words do in Dutch. If it meant adult guardianship and klaar is kees, then surely Dutch is equally able to state meerderjarig curatele, but it does not say that because the meerderjarige element, comes into it under another clause where the same thing can be applied to adults, thus not as an extension. They have two things, meerderjarige & minderjarige, the meerder the person of full age, the minder the minor the non-adult person. If you were to use your solution then you run into trouble up ahead when they start using the word meerderjarige in the clauses following on from 478 of the BW. That's why I said the Dutch works better, since the Dutch wording is going to make people think, not think about adults, the English ''adult guardianship'' won't do it, omitting the sense conveyed (extension of existing status)
Barend, your idea gets closest only thing is as soon as you write minority, where the root in fact is minor, and minor is meant, people in English speaking countries are immediately going to think about tribes in Africa, Amazonian Indians, etc., since the phrasing gives nothing away , it could mean 100 things.
Another issue is, not addressing you though, the actual thing itself being unique as a system to Belgium, means there is no sense in simply equating it with a system used in another country, similar but not the same as it is not about a system used in another country, it is about a system used in Belgium; sometimes I think Dutch is more to the point than English is, in less words too. Anyway, the correct translation should convey the original meaning precisely, not a foreign conception, if it means more or less words and more maybe is the only way, then even if the original was short and sweet the translation will simply have to use more words if need be, in order to make it exactly clear what is meant.
Automatic update in 00:
Answers
18 mins confidence: peer agreement (net): +1
adult in legal guardianship
Explanation: Your supposition is correct:
Verlengde minderjarigheid, in België, is een juridisch beschermingsstatuut, ingevoerd in 1973, analoog aan handelingsonbekwaamheid voor personen met een verstandelijke handicap waarbij een uitgebleven ontwikkeling van verstand, gevoel en wil is vastgesteld, die niet in staat zijn zichzelf te leiden en hun goederen te beheren.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 19 mins (2013-10-22 14:50:18 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
A literal translation doesn't work - I don't think its meaning would be clear.
philgoddard United States Specializes in field Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 20
10 hrs confidence:
extended minority status
Explanation: I think there is enough support for 'extended minority', an option you yourself suggested. It seems to be sound English and sufficiently unambiguous.
In this list you might use: 'extended minority status'
The legal provision seems to be specific to Belgium. In French it is called: mineur prolongé.
However, Belgium also has a policy of “extended minority” for those with severe and profound intellectual disabilities. The decision as to whether to grant extended minority is made by a court of law and on an individual basis. Someone who is considered to need “extended minority” protection is then treated as a minor (under 15) and cannot vote, marry, start a family or manage his/her own affairs in any way)
In Belgian law, there is a legal status of "extended minority", meaning that someone is still officially a child despite being born a sufficient number of years ago that they would otherwise count as an adult (usually used in cases of severe mental handicap).
If only we could have something like that here, for people who aren't ready to be unsupervised when doing things that might affect the public. :-)
The right to vote is suspended in the case of the following:
- those who have had a guardian appointed, those under an extended minority order pursuant to the Act of 29 June 1973 and those held in confinement pursuant to Chapters I to VI of the Act of 9 April 1930 on the Defence of Society against the Abnormal and Habitual Criminals, replaced by Article 1 of the Act of 1 July 1964; the incapacity ceases at the same time as the guardianship or extended minority or simultaneously with the final release of the person concerned;
European Countries discussing the themes of legal capacity and guardianship, rights to services and support and access to rights and justice of people with intellectual disabilities. The chapter on legal capacity and guardianship comparatively examines European laws in this area. Although surveys were completed for all countries, the reports from Sweden, Germany, Spain, France, Ireland, Belgium, the Netherlands, Slovenia and Poland were selected for discussion so as to provide an overview of the varied laws governing guardianship in Europe. Sweden and Germany are commended for their successful legislative reforms and provide a template for other countries to copy or build upon. In France there are three different measures of protection, legal safeguard, trusteeship and protection, afforded to those who lack the necessary capacity to make decisions. The individual needs of each adult determine which type of protection they require. Belgium offers a number of legal protection measures but the two most frequently used are the extended minority and provisional administration. Under extended minority the individual is considered as a minor incapable of controlling all aspects of their lives. This is reserved for individuals with severe intellectual disabilities. Provisional administration only concerns the goods of the individual, while their personal well-being remains within their own control. In the Netherlands full legal guardianship still exists and involves complete substitute decision-making powers. They also offer two partial guardianship measures; one covering only material matters (“Beschermingsbewind”) while the other only covers immaterial matters (“Mentorship”).
Adult guardianship order as extension of minor (non-adult) status
Explanation: See discussion for references to why this choice of wording
HOOFDSTUK IV. - VERLENGDE MINDERJARIGHEID.
Art. 487bis. <Ingevoegd bij W 29-06-1973, art. 1> Een minderjarige van wie gebleken is dat hij wegens ernstige geestelijke achterlijkheid ongeschikt is en schijnt te zullen blijven om zichzelf te leiden en zijn goederen te beheren, kan in staat van verlengde minderjarigheid worden verklaard. Onder ernstige geestelijke achterlijkheid moet worden verstaan een staat van geestelijke onvolwaardigheid, aangeboren of begonnen tijdens de vroege kinderjaren, en gekenmerkt door een uitgebleven ontwikkeling van de gezamenlijke vermogens van verstand, gevoel en wil.
Een zelfde maatregel kan worden genomen ten aanzien van een meerderjarige van wie is gebleken dat hij tijdens zijn minderjarigheid verkeerde in omstandigheden als omschreven in voorgaande leden. Hij die in staat van verlengde minderjarigheid is verklaard, wordt ten aanzien van zijn persoon en zijn goederen gelijkgesteld met een minderjarige beneden de vijftien jaar.
Art. 487ter. <Ingevoegd bij W 29-06-1973, art. 1> (Voor de minderjarige wordt de staat van verlengde minderjarigheid bij de rechtbank van eerste aanleg van zijn woon- of verblijfplaats aangevraagd bij een verzoekschrift, ondertekend door de vader en de moeder of door een van hen, door de voogd of door hun advocaat of, wanneer dezen het initiatief daartoe niet nemen, door de procureur des Konings.
Voor de meerderjarige wordt de staat van verlengde minderjarigheid bij de rechtbank van eerste aanleg van zijn woon- of verblijfplaats aangevraagd bij een verzoekschrift, ondertekend door gelijk welke bloedverwant, door de voogd van de onbekwaamverklaarde meerderjarige, door hun advocaat of door de procureur des Konings.) <W 06-04-1976, art. 1>
Bij het verzoekschrift wordt een geneeskundig attest van niet meer dan vijftien dagen oud gevoegd, dat de geestelijke onvolwaardigheid beschrijft.
Terry Costin Netherlands Local time: 03:03 Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 8
Login or register (free and only takes a few minutes) to participate in this question.
You will also have access to many other tools and opportunities designed for those who have language-related jobs
(or are passionate about them). Participation is free and the site has a strict confidentiality policy.