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English to French translations [PRO] Law/Patents - Law: Contract(s)
English term or phrase:whether on a blind or open basis
All correspondence from XXX acting in the defence of the Quantum Proceedings to the Court, any expert instructed in the Quantum Proceedings, counsel and the Claimants will be copied contemporaneously (whether on a blind or open basis, as appropriate) to YYY or as otherwise directed by ZZZ
Je n'arrive pas à trouver une traduction satisfaisant pour "blind or open basis"
Marwa, c’est gentil de fournir ces détails, mais je pense que vous frôler le bris de confidentialité... Je vous suggérerais de supprimer cette entrée dont les détails pourraient mener à identifier vos clients, Merci pour le suivi!
Vous avez tout à fait raison Germaine, car il ne s'agissait pas obligatoirement d'e-mails (si ça avait été le cas, je n'aurais pas posé la question). Le document était une proposition d'accord entre les différentes parties qui ne parviennent pas à se mettre d'accord : la compagnie d'assurance qui a indemnisé la famille du défunt comme elle le devait et qui se retourne contre le transporteur et un fabricant de pneus, car les deux roues avant du camion qui a provoqué l'accident étaient équipées de pneus de différentes référence et numéros de lot. il était question entre autres que le transporteur et le fabricant de pneus fassent une proposition à la compagnie d'assurance, puis l'adresser aux avocats des différentes parties, mais je ne pense pas qu'on puisse parler de "copies cachées" dans ce cas. C'est aussi la raison pour laquelle j'avais posé la question dans "Legal"
Thanks, but I can’t post an answer, not even comment on yours, since I’ve decided (for many reasons) not to renew the "paying" part of my near 19-year membership.
I wasn't aware of that difference between English and French usage. The use of blind copies in England is not necessarily a "courtoisie", it can be purely diplomatic, but it can also be anything from sneaky to malicious. A cc list on a letter only gives the names of the persons copied in, on an email it gives their email address, so there is an additional and good reason for using bcc, i.e. to preserve the privacy of persons copied in.
Note also that the email header "cc" (carbon copy) or "bcc" (blind carbon copy) betrays its origin in the days before both email and photocopiers (but just after they stopped using quill pens).
So, as I'm not that well up on the complexities of French office practice, may I suggest that you post an answer.
Avec le recul et après cette discussion, je ne suis toujours sûre de rien, mais voici deux possibilités :
Copie de toute correspondance reçue de... sera transmise sur réception (par transfert électronique ou voie traditionnelle, avec ou sans indication des codestinataires, selon le cas) à YYY ou à tel autre destinataire désigné par ZZZ.
ou (et plus j’y pense, plus j’ai l’impression qu’il faut se détacher de ce qu’on tient pour acquis!) :
Copie de toute correspondance reçue de... sera transmise sur réception (sur une base ouverte ou confidentielle, selon le cas) à YYY ou à tel autre destinataire désigné par ZZZ.
Si le sens de "blind copy" n’a pas changé depuis des lustres, pourquoi traduisez-vous par "copie cachée" - une expression qui ne s’associe qu’à un courriel ?
J’en ai fait des tas de copies carbone, de polycopies, de photocopies et de "copies conformes" dans ma vie, mais jamais de "copies cachées" - ce qui m’aurait mis dans le pétrin. En français d’ici, les "blind copy" papier (faut-il le préciser) sont des "copies de courtoisie", mais je ne doute pas que les confrères Français pourront ajouter de leur cru.
Si vous aviez pris la peine de lire ma première proposition jusqu’à "ou autrement acheminée", vous auriez remarqué qu’elle couvrait "both letters and emails or any other form of correspondence". Mais vous avez raison: j’ai oublié de reprendre dans la deuxième version, et réflexion faite, je vais corriger les deux!
The meanings of the terms "blind copy" and "open copy" have not changed. My point was that they cover both letters and emails or any other form of correspondence. So, it would be wrong to limit the meaning in the target language by specifying the form of correspondence, when the source language covers all forms.
However, I have realised that I treated this as EN>EN, when it's EN>FR, so I shall correct that.
I don’t understand your comment. Many words had a meaning at some point in time and have another one (or no more sense) today. Is the text to translate an excerpt from an archive of that time that requires that we set aside the meaning or connotation these expressions have today? Pour ce que ça vaut, je doute qu’on soit en train de parler de "copies/exemplaires de courtoisie".
your answer is exactly what sprung to my mind after few seconds of initial puzzlement.
BTW, I noticed something else, related to the concept of "context". Here "communication by emails" is "a context so obvious that it's not seen as worth mentioning it explicitly", so nor the question not the answer mention it at all!
Practically everyone uses emails (or at least knows what it is), but when you get a similar situation in some narrowly specialised field (i.e. some key elements left implied because of being "blindingly obvious" for people in that field) and you include these "implied elements" in your answer, you get at least one Doubting Thomas asking "where does it say that"?
Read the whole thing. This is about copying people in to correspondence, not about forms of plea deals. "All correspondence from XXX ... will be copied contemporaneously (whether on a blind or open basis, as appropriate) to ... "
Si vous parlez d'une sorte d'accord de plaidoyer, un plaidoyer aveugle ou ouvert laisse à la fois le défendeur et l'État libres de plaider en faveur de toute peine autorisée par la loi. Le juge du procès conserve tous les droits de condamner le défendeur à n’importe quel terme compris dans la fourchette prévue par la loi américaine utilisée, dans cet exemple, de mon explication. In English; If you are talking about some sort of plea deal, a blind or open plea leaves both the defendant and the State free to argue for any sentence permitted by law. The trial judge retains all rights to sentence the defendant to any term within the range provided by the U.S. statute being used, in this example, of my explanation.
but you seem to somehow think that paying for Proz membership proves you know more ... Good luck with that.
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Answers
1 day 13 hrs confidence:
whether by blind copies or open copies
Explanation: "Claimants will be copied contemporaneously (whether on a blind or open basis, as appropriate)"
The above makes it clear that this is about whether the copies are bcc (blind copies) or cc (open copies).
A blind copy is a copy sent to someone without the fact of them being a recipient being disclosed to the other recipients. With open copies, the other recipients are informed who has received those copies.
B D Finch France Local time: 11:03 Does not meet criteria Specializes in field Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 48
Explanation: Apologies for having failed to notice before that this was an EN>FR question.
"Claimants will be copied contemporaneously (whether on a blind or open basis, as appropriate)"
The above makes it clear that this is about whether the copies are bcc (blind copies) or cc (open copies).
A blind copy is a copy sent to someone without the fact of them being a recipient being disclosed to the other recipients. With open copies, the other recipients are informed who has received those copies.
https://forums.mozfr.org › ... › Mozilla Thunderbird : le courrielleur Apr 21, 2012 - ... tous les contacts que tu désires et en un seul clic tu les mets soit comme destinataires principaux, soit en copie, soit en copie cachée.
B D Finch France Local time: 11:03 Does not meet criteria Specializes in field Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 48
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