flaky dough - flaky pastry

English translation: Flaky dough is wrong

10:26 Feb 24, 2005
English language (monolingual) [PRO]
Cooking / Culinary
English term or phrase: flaky dough - flaky pastry
Is dough the same as pastry?

I would always talk about certain pastries/cakes being made with "flaky pastry", since "dough" is for me the raw mixture.

Do Americans use this differently, since I've come across references to recipes with "flaky dough"
Craig Meulen
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:31
Selected answer:Flaky dough is wrong
Explanation:
I'm surely not the only one on proz who's ever cooked?

Dough is dough is dough, and most doughs can be treated to make what we call "flaky pastry" - the dough itself can never be flaky!

It's a simple process of rolling out, buttering, folding and re-rolling time and again until you have the thinnest possible pastry layers divided by even thinner layers of butter (or margarine, or lard, or whatever "shortening" you are using) before the "flaky pastry" (you can't possibly call it dough at this stage) is cooked.

I am not privy to how this is done on a commercial basis, but I doubt it varies much - in principle, at least.

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Note added at 3 hrs 24 mins (2005-02-24 13:50:53 GMT)
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BTW, \"dough\" is more commonly used for bread in the UK - not always, but more commonly.
Definitions:
Dough: a mixture of flour, liquid (water or milk) and yeast, used in the preparation of bread, pastry etc, usually referring to such a mixture that has been kneaded but not baked.
Pastry: dough made with flour, fat and water, used for piecrusts; a sweet baked article made with this, a pie, tart etc.

Courtesy of the Chambers 21st. Century English dictionary.
Selected response from:

David Moore (X)
Local time: 06:31
Grading comment
Thanks for the answer - its difficult to decide who to give the points to, but this answer wins by a nose ....

Special thanks also to Rita Heller for her comments, and Ruth.
3 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



SUMMARY OF ALL EXPLANATIONS PROVIDED
4 +3Flaky dough is wrong
David Moore (X)
5it is no the same
Maria Chmelarova
4 -1there is some overlap
Refugio
3flaky pastry
Natalie Wilcock (X)
2flay pastry is what you make with flaky dough
Jonathan MacKerron


Discussion entries: 7





  

Answers


8 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
there is some overlap


Explanation:
dough: a flour mixture stiff enough to knead or roll

pastry, pastry dough: a dough of flour and water and shortening
pastry: any of various baked foods made of dough or batter

As a general rule, the pastry is the cooked product and the dough is raw. However, as you can see from the two definitions, pastry is made from pastry. Probably a reference to flaky dough is in order to distinguish it from the pastry filling (fruit, cream, etc.).




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Note added at 9 mins (2005-02-24 10:35:29 GMT)
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When dough or pastry is called flaky, it means it has a high content of shortening.

Refugio
Local time: 22:31
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  David Moore (X): Short pastry doesn't have to be flaky....flaky pastry does have to contain lots of "shortening".
3 hrs
  -> Exactly what I said. One way only. Why disagree?
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12 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
flaky pastry


Explanation:
I would also rather use dough as meaning the unfinished product and pastry as the 'type' of dough in its 'finished' i.e. baked consistency although in several recipes (Delia Smith, for instance) pastry is also used denoting the 'stuff' in its consistency pre-baking.

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Note added at 29 mins (2005-02-24 10:55:11 GMT)
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I wouldn\'t use dough for the finished product. I would definitely say \'these are made with flaky pastry\'.


    Reference: http://www.food.gov.uk/enforcement/alerts/2005/feb/pizzaexpr...
    Reference: http://web.ukonline.co.uk/tuk/Pastry.html
Natalie Wilcock (X)
Local time: 06:31
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in GermanGerman
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6 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
flay pastry is what you make with flaky dough


Explanation:
or am I missing something here??

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Note added at 7 mins (2005-02-24 10:33:43 GMT)
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i.e., a specially prepared dough which yield flaky pastry

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Note added at 11 mins (2005-02-24 10:37:48 GMT)
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sorry make that \"yields\"

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Note added at 21 mins (2005-02-24 10:47:08 GMT)
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\"this pastry is made with flaky dough\"

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Note added at 52 mins (2005-02-24 11:18:42 GMT)
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dough does not become pastry until it is baked

Jonathan MacKerron
Native speaker of: English

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  David Sirett: I think the uncertainty arises from whether the dough used to make flaky pastry is itself flaky! Plus some people (more US?) do seem to use 'dough' for the pastry obtained after cooking.
1 hr

neutral  RHELLER: sorry Jonathan but the main term is flaky pastry - some may shorten "flaky pastry dough"(dough used to make flaky pastry) into flaky dough but it is technically incorrect
10 hrs
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
it is no the same


Explanation:
flaky dough is raw mixture as you mentioned, but it must be prepare in certain way to have it as flaky pastry after bakink.
In USA is sometimes wrongly called "danish pastry", which is not the same by qulity and how it looks. Also, sometimes is called "phylo", which you can buy it in grocery stores, ready for Greeks pastry "baklava". Once again, only wrong wording for typical european flaky pastry.

Maria Chmelarova
Local time: 01:31
Native speaker of: Slovak
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
Flaky dough is wrong


Explanation:
I'm surely not the only one on proz who's ever cooked?

Dough is dough is dough, and most doughs can be treated to make what we call "flaky pastry" - the dough itself can never be flaky!

It's a simple process of rolling out, buttering, folding and re-rolling time and again until you have the thinnest possible pastry layers divided by even thinner layers of butter (or margarine, or lard, or whatever "shortening" you are using) before the "flaky pastry" (you can't possibly call it dough at this stage) is cooked.

I am not privy to how this is done on a commercial basis, but I doubt it varies much - in principle, at least.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs 24 mins (2005-02-24 13:50:53 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

BTW, \"dough\" is more commonly used for bread in the UK - not always, but more commonly.
Definitions:
Dough: a mixture of flour, liquid (water or milk) and yeast, used in the preparation of bread, pastry etc, usually referring to such a mixture that has been kneaded but not baked.
Pastry: dough made with flour, fat and water, used for piecrusts; a sweet baked article made with this, a pie, tart etc.

Courtesy of the Chambers 21st. Century English dictionary.

David Moore (X)
Local time: 06:31
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 15
Grading comment
Thanks for the answer - its difficult to decide who to give the points to, but this answer wins by a nose ....

Special thanks also to Rita Heller for her comments, and Ruth.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  conejo: It should be pastry, because by nature, dough cannot be flaky.
1 hr

agree  Mathew Robinson: with UK part, I have never heard uncooked pastry referred to as dough before.
2 hrs

agree  RHELLER: Hi David - I am a rather experienced cook/baker in France and the U.S. and I agree that flaky describes the finished pastry product not the dough itself- perhaps the asker is not phrasing the question well. flaky dough recipes= made w/flaky pastry dough
7 hrs
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