damp of hell, serenity of heaven

17:47 May 28, 2019 

Who said something about modern German?

17:28 May 28, 2019 

I don't think modern German would be much help here. Both the German and English languages have evolved separately since the days of the Anglo-Saxons!

23:58 May 24, 2019 

Not trying to argue against anything you said, but the etymonline link that B D Finch added to her reference post contains this tidbit: "German damp"

Now, besides vapor, fume[s] (as pointed out below) might be something worth thinking about. Corroborated by Grimms' dictionary (which I used during my studies):
"ein dichter, sichtbarer, feuchter rauch oder dunst, schwerer als duft, leichter als qualm und schwaden, fumus, vapor, exhalatio, ahd. dampf, mhd. tampf, dän., engl., niederl. und niederd. damp, altnord. dampi, poln. dim. es gehört zu dem starken verbum dimpfen rauchen (Benecke 1, 331)."
http://woerterbuchnetz.de/cgi-bin/WBNetz/wbgui_py?sigle=DWB&...

Pretty close to:
late 14c., "vapor, odorous vapor; exhalation," from Old French fum "smoke, steam, vapor, breath, aroma, scent" (12c.), from Latin fumus "smoke, steam, fume, old flavor" (source also of Italian fumo, Spanish humo), from PIE root *dheu- (1) "dust, vapor, smoke."
https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=fume

Not sure whether that supports fog/mist, but smoke/steam seems to factor in somewhere.

Best wishes

09:36 May 23, 2019 

The text referred to by Yaprak differs from the text of Donne's sermon, which is presumably why my Google search was not very fruitful.
Donne wrote:
(Howling is the noyse of hell, singing the voyce of heaven;) Sadnesse the damp of Hell, Rejoycing the serenity of Heaven.
not
Despair is the damp of hell, as joy is the serenity of heaven.
Donne is contrasting the passive/negative features of Hell with the active/positive aspects of Heaven, i.e. Howling/Singing, Noyse/Voyce, Sadnesse/Rejoycing, Damp/Serenity.
For this and the following reasons I think that the fire/combustion associations of damp should be excluded:
1. It is not referred to in any of the excellent sources referred to by Charles, or Robert Ray.
2. All of the meaning listed are negative/passive.
3. There are several types of mining damp, i.e. black damp or suffocating damp, white damp, stink damp and fire damp or fulminating damp. Only one of these four types of mining damp is associated with fire, while the other three all fit in with the more general meaning of noxious vapour.

00:10 May 23, 2019 

Modern editors of Donne's poetry have taken differing views of the meaning of "damp" in that marvellous poem.

John Carey (Oxford World's Classics): "poisonous mist".
Theodor Redpath (Harvard UP critical ed.): "chill depression".
Robin Robbins (Routledge) hedges his bets: "(a) fatal exhalation, foggy chill, noxious vapour; (b) stupor, dejection".
A. J. Smith (Penguin): "a noxious exhalation, a poisonous fume".
Richard Sugg in his study of Donne: "If we start with the 'damp' of the title, we find that it refers to a kind of poisonous mist emanating from the woman's picture."

23:28 May 22, 2019 

THE DAMP.
by John Donne



WHEN I am dead, and doctors know not why,
And my friends' curiosity
Will have me cut up to survey each part,
When they shall find your picture in my heart,
You think a sudden damp of love
Will thorough all their senses move,
And work on them as me, and so prefer
Your murder to the name of massacre,

Poor victories ; but if you dare be brave,
And pleasure in your conquest have,
First kill th' enormous giant, your Disdain ;
And let th' enchantress Honour, next be slain ;
And like a Goth and Vandal rise,
Deface records and histories
Of your own arts and triumphs over men,
And without such advantage kill me then,
For I could muster up, as well as you,
My giants, and my witches too,
Which are vast Constancy and Secretness ;
But these I neither look for nor profess ;
Kill me as woman, let me die
As a mere man ; do you but try
Your passive valour, and you shall find then,
Naked you have odds enough of any man.

23:25 May 22, 2019 

Thank you Charles. Very helpful.
A John Donne Companion by Robert Ray (Routledge Revivals); contains "A Donne Dictionary" which defines Damp as Noun: (1) A noxious exhalation, vapor, or gas, including that from mines; (2) Visible vapor, such as fog or mist; (3) moisture, dampness, humidity; (4) stupor or loss of consciousness; (a state of dejection; (6) a discouragement.
Donne also wrote a sonnet called "The Dampe" in which he imagines his own autopsy and a damp that affects those standing around the autopsy table. Ray says that the primary meaning of damp in Donne's time was "stupor" or "loss of consciousness".

23:02 May 22, 2019 

Donne was Dean of St Paul's at this time, a post to which he was appointed in 1621 and which he occupied until his death in 1631. Many of his sermons (160) survive. This is generally regarded as one of his best.

22:55 May 22, 2019 

Dr Johnson offers three definitions of damp:
1. Fog; moist air; moisture.
2. A noxious vapour exhaled from the earth.
3. Dejection; depression of spirit; cloud of the mind.
He gives more examples of no. 3 that of the other two, with examples from Milton, Roscommon, Addison, Rogers and Swift.
https://archive.org/stream/dictionaryofengl01johnuoft#page/n...

I think the primary meaning of "damp" in this quotation from Donne's sermon is no. 3, dejection or depression of spirit, but the other two meanings may also be suggested.

I don't think there's any implicit reference to fire here. "Damp" is a noxious vapour but not inherently an inflammable one in this period.

22:44 May 22, 2019 

It's from one of Donne's sermons, "The second of my Prebend Sermons upon my five Psalmes. Preached at S. Pauls, Ianuary 19. 1625", near the end. Available here, in The Sermons of John Donne, ed. Evelyn M. Simpson and George R. Potter, vol. VII (Berkeley/Los Angeles: University of California Press, 1954), pp. 51–71, at p. 70:

"Vnder the shadow of his wings, you may, you should, rejoyce. [...]
And then thinke also, that if God afford thee the shadow of his wings, that is, Consolation, respiration, refreshing, though not a present, and plenary deliverance, in thy afflictions, not to thanke God, is a murmuring, and not to rejoyce in Gods wayes, is an unthankfulnesse. Howling is the noyse of hell, singing the voyce of heaven; Sadnesse the damp of Hell, Rejoycing the serenity of Heaven. [...]"
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=r-4fGo6c5k4C&pg=PA3&lpg=...

15:20 May 22, 2019 

Does anyone know what work this quote is taken from?