make a braver show

English translation: Put on an act or pretend (conceal true feelings)

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)

English term or phrase:	make a braver show
Selected answer:	Put on an act or pretend (conceal true feelings)
Entered by:	Yvonne Gallagher

22:47 Sep 26, 2019

English language (monolingual) [PRO]
Art/Literary - Poetry & Literature

English term or phrase: make a braver show

"Well, even so, none made a braver show than she."

Maids say this about an older lady, a countess, who has just returned home from a social outing. The setting is early 19th century Russia.

What exactly does "made a braver show" mean?

Thank you for your help!

Mikhail Kropotov KudoZ activity Questions: 408 (none open) Answers: 5215 Germany
Local time: 05:49

Put on an act or pretend

Explanation:
Hard to be exact without knowing more of the context but in s social gathering it usually means that someone pretends to like or no oapprove of somoeone or something even when the opposite is true

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Note added at 37 mins (2019-09-26 23:25:34 GMT)
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SO, they are putting on a show or trying really hard to hide their dislike or disapproval

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Note added at 6 days (2019-10-03 14:26:55 GMT) Post-grading
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Glad to have helped and happy you weren't led astray by some of the "fake news"

For the record, and without typos now I'm finally home again, there is no way that the expression "make a brave show" could mean that she is the most beautiful here. So, if the latter is what the Russian means, this expression is incorrectly used.

Selected response from:

Yvonne Gallagher
Ireland
Local time: 04:49

Grading comment

Thank you so much for your help
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

SUMMARY OF ALL EXPLANATIONS PROVIDED

4 +1

she was the belle of the ball

David Hollywood

courageous shoe

Ali Sharifi

Make a greater effort

JaneTranslates

pretended to be unaffected

AJ Ablooglu

to put on a brave face

Katya Kesten

Put on an act or pretend

Yvonne Gallagher

Summary of reference entries provided

был кто лучше там собою

Vladyslav Golovaty

Discussion entries: 13

David Moore (X)

@Mikhail:

16:27 Sep 27, 2019

ALL the offerings bar David's have a negative implication, as does the original translation. If the Russian really means what you understand, I would either use David's idea, or perhaps "she outshone all the other guests".

Mark Robertson

13:10 Sep 27, 2019

I think putting on a brave show can involve a contrast between a subdued inner mood and an expansive outer display. The brave show is put on despite or notwithstanding that the inner mood. The brave show does not reveal, it conceals.

B D Finch

France

Verb

12:13 Sep 27, 2019

I think there is a difference between making a brave show and putting on a brave show. The former implies both effort and success, while the latter is about making an effort, in spite of either having already failed or being doomed to failure.

philgoddard

United States

The translator is correct in my opinion.

08:57 Sep 27, 2019

See definitions 2 and 3 here:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/brave
I think it's a good translation, too - it fits the tone of the text, and the historical era.

Yvonne Gallagher

Ireland

' Mikhail

07:50 Sep 27, 2019

Glad to have helped

Mikhail Kropotov

Germany

ASKER

07:35 Sep 27, 2019

Thank you so much for your help!

I have received all the help I needed and have graded Yvonne's answer, but apparently the site will not show this until 24 hours elapse since the question was posted.

Yvonne Gallagher

Ireland

07:32 Sep 27, 2019

Yes, Mark has given you a good ref for the actual meaning of "put on a show" in English which confirm what I have already said. There is always some form of act involved, and, in this case of a "brave" show" the lady has had to work hard at putting on the act. This is a "noble act" i.e she is being selfless and to be admired for doing so whether to be diplomatic or just to keep the peace. BUT obviously, that does not fit with the meaning of the source text you have given, at all.
I gave you a couple of ways of phrasing that last night and I thought of another "she was the fairest of them all" OR "none was more fair than her" in terms of writing THIS meaning (that YOU see in the source text) in "older" style (like my other suggestions)

Mark Robertson

To put on a show

06:20 Sep 27, 2019

This may help

https://translate.enacademic.com/to put on a brave show/xx/x...

Yvonne Gallagher

Ireland

00:14 Sep 27, 2019

Sorry for typos. (Writing on phone in hotel room.) This would be a third-party approving view of her but it needs to match the source text

Yvonne Gallagher

Ireland

00:08 Sep 27, 2019

Perhaps: there was none (no one) could match her in beauty? Or: her beauty had no equal (in the assembled gathering)

Yvonne Gallagher

Ireland

00:01 Sep 27, 2019

Short answer...no, doesn't look right

Mikhail Kropotov

Germany

ASKER

23:28 Sep 26, 2019

Thank you for explaining the meaning, Yvonne!
I'm checking someone else's English translation for accuracy. The Russian source literally means, "None there was as good-looking as she."
Do you think "None made a braver show than she." is accurate?

Tina Vonhof (X)

Canada

23:26 Sep 26, 2019

Can you give us the previous sentence as well? Or a couple?

Answers

1 hr confidence:

Make a greater effort

Explanation:
No one made a greater effort (to appear to be stronger, more unconcerned, more confident, etc.) than she did.

More context would surely help. My impression is that the maids are speaking of the countess with admiration. Perhaps she held her head high, displaying dignity despite difficult circumstances.

Yes, it's an act, a pretense, but the phrase is usually used sympathetically. That's why the maids would use the word "brave."

JaneTranslates
Puerto Rico
Local time: 23:49
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 36

3 hrs confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

she was the belle of the ball

Explanation:
Noun. belle of the ball (plural belles of the ball) The woman who is the most beautiful or attractive at a dance or similar function.

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Note added at 3 hrs (2019-09-27 01:53:26 GMT)
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given your explanation of the source text

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Note added at 3 hrs (2019-09-27 01:54:28 GMT)
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as you see, this expression doesn't only refer to dances or balls

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Note added at 5 hrs (2019-09-27 03:49:02 GMT)
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I would confirm that in this content and time period it means that the person in question came off best in terms of appearance and attractiveness

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Note added at 5 hrs (2019-09-27 03:52:39 GMT)
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what's the source language?

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Note added at 5 hrs (2019-09-27 03:56:18 GMT)
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the belle of the ball means the lady involved won the show in terms of being the one they all looked at NOT necessarily the most attractive or beautiful

David Hollywood
Local time: 00:49
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 118

Notes to answerer

Asker: Hi David, I'm not translating from the Russian but only checking someone else's translation for accuracy. Can you please confirm that "made a braver show" does NOT mean "the most attractive"?

8 hrs confidence:

pretended to be unaffected

Explanation:
In the above sentence “even so” makes me wonder if something went wrong at the social outing and this lady pretended to be unaffected from it.
I sincerely doubt that being bell of the ball has anything to do with it.

AJ Ablooglu
Türkiye
Local time: 23:49
Native speaker of:

Turkish

6 hrs confidence:

courageous shoe

Explanation:
Courage and bravery have a lot in common, so courageous could mean brave.

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Note added at 8 hrs (2019-09-27 07:37:43 GMT)
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It is show and not shoe,

Ali Sharifi
United States
Local time: 23:49
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

Persian (Farsi)

11 hrs confidence:

to put on a brave face

Explanation:
This could refer to self-possession; pulling yourself together (recovering control of your emotions), putting on a brave face (masking your discomfort) and going on to do whatever you need to do despite unfavorable circumstances.

Katya Kesten
Local time: 22:49
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 4

Notes to answerer

Asker: Thank you for your help, Katya!

35 mins confidence:

Put on an act or pretend

Yvonne Gallagher
Ireland
Local time: 04:49
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 317

Grading comment

Thank you so much for your help

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

agree

AJ Ablooglu: In the above sentence “even so” makes me wonder if something went wrong at the social outing and this lady pretended to be unaffected from it.

7 hrs

-> Thank you. yes, that is also possible. We don't have enough context to know Why she is putting on a show but anyway, the source text does not mean this.//typo in my first line as it should be "pretend to like and not disapprove of..."

disagree

philgoddard: No, see my discussion note.//Mikhail says the Russian means she was the most beautiful woman there. I'm saying it has been correctly translated.

9 hrs

-> no, you (and David) are absolutely wrong//I think if Mikhail , a native Russian, gives the meaning of the source text as something else, we should accept that

Reference comments

2 days 19 hrs

Reference: был кто лучше там собою

Reference information:
Это из либретто к опере "Пиковая дама".

Строка "Well, even so, none made a braver show than she."
соответствует строке на русском "Ну, и что же, Был кто лучше там собою?"

Либретто на английском:
https://www.opera-arias.com/tchaikovsky/the-queen-of-spades/...

Либретто на русском:
http://lukianpovorotov.narod.ru/Folder_SongBook/CL/Pikovaya_...
извините за простоту и спасибо за отзів на форуме)

Vladyslav Golovaty
Ukraine
Native speaker of:

English,

Russian

Note to reference poster

Asker: This is precisely the translation I am checking the accuracy of.

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make a braver show

English translation: Put on an act or pretend (conceal true feelings)

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