flattering jarls with father

English translation: could be either

23:15 Aug 7, 2020
English language (monolingual) [Non-PRO]
Art/Literary - Poetry & Literature
English term or phrase: flattering jarls with father
Hello everyone,

The situation is as follows: Two brothers have killed a deer, but the wolves are nearby.

Hámund continued to scoff. “Next you’ll tell me they’ll attempt to flank us.”
“They’ll certainly try.”
Now Hámund scoffed at him, and Geirmund’s temper flared.
“Perhaps if you had spent less time ***drinking ale and flattering jarls with father***, you would know how wolves hunt.”
Hámund stopped laughing but made no reply. Geirmund measured his older brother’s silence and knew he would have to answer for the insult later, however true the observation might have been, but not in the danger of that moment.

Does "with father" refer to both (drinking ale and flattering jarls, i.e. Hámund drank ale with father and flattered jarls with father) or to "flattering jarls" only?

Thank you.
Mikhail Korolev
Local time: 15:13
Selected answer:could be either
Explanation:
:)

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Note added at 8 mins (2020-08-07 23:23:58 GMT)
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totally ambiguous

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Note added at 9 mins (2020-08-07 23:24:45 GMT)
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Jarl definition is - a Scandinavian noble ranking immediately below the king.

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Note added at 10 mins (2020-08-07 23:26:16 GMT)
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I would tend towards both father and son doing the flattering as the son probably follows his father's lead

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Note added at 1 hr (2020-08-08 00:17:27 GMT)
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the main thing is to get the correct interpretation, so really doesn't matter how we get there
Selected response from:

David Hollywood
Local time: 09:13
Grading comment
Many thanks to everyone.
Thank you, David.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



SUMMARY OF ALL EXPLANATIONS PROVIDED
5 +4could be either
David Hollywood
4 +4drank and flattered with father
Yvonne Gallagher
4 +1flattering nobles with father
airmailrpl
4Flattering jarls with father
Gabriel Ferrero


  

Answers


15 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +4
drank and flattered with father


Explanation:
how I read it

otherwise it would be written as

if you had spent less time ***drinking ale with father and flattering jarls

Jarls are like earls BTW though not exactly the same

https://midgardtomiddleearth.wordpress.com/2015/03/05/the-vi...

Yvonne Gallagher
Ireland
Local time: 12:13
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 317

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  David Hollywood: don't think the 2 things are separate in this context...more likely that he was with dad and they both got up to the same thing
7 mins
  -> what? You're the one who said "either". Not I. The 2 things are NOT separate. Read what I wrote again. You seem to have missed "Otherwise..."

agree  Rachel Fell
9 hrs
  -> Many thanks:-)

agree  Sanaz Khanjani
9 hrs
  -> Many thanks:-)

agree  B D Finch: The drinking and flattering go together, the more they drunk the more they flattered their guests (or hosts).// So you did!
10 hrs
  -> That's what I said? "Drank AND flattered with father"...obviously in a social gathering! Also, "the more they drank the more they flattered" would be overtranslation. They could be flattering from the start of the event/gathering //Thank you

agree  JaneTranslates: This seems perfectly clear to me--in the text and in your answer. According to little brother G, H doesn't know how wolves hunt because he spent too much time hanging out with Dad while both of them drank ale and flattered jarls.
1 day 3 hrs
  -> Many thanks Jane:-) I really don't get any ambiguity or see any "grey area"
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40 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
flattering nobles with father


Explanation:
flattering jarls with father => flattering nobles with father

Definition of jarl. : a Scandinavian noble ranking immediately below the king.
Jarl | Definition of Jarl by Merriam-Webster

airmailrpl
Brazil
Local time: 09:13
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in PortuguesePortuguese
PRO pts in category: 64

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  B D Finch
9 hrs
  -> agradeço

neutral  Yvonne Gallagher: how does that answer the question?//yet another great response. NOT!
14 hrs
  -> neutral ..We can do WITHOUT your opinions
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7 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +4
could be either


Explanation:
:)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 mins (2020-08-07 23:23:58 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

totally ambiguous

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 mins (2020-08-07 23:24:45 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Jarl definition is - a Scandinavian noble ranking immediately below the king.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 10 mins (2020-08-07 23:26:16 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I would tend towards both father and son doing the flattering as the son probably follows his father's lead

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2020-08-08 00:17:27 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

the main thing is to get the correct interpretation, so really doesn't matter how we get there

David Hollywood
Local time: 09:13
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 118
Grading comment
Many thanks to everyone.
Thank you, David.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Yvonne Gallagher: really disagree. Nothing ambiguous about it. It could not be "either"written like that//you're still on the fence at end
19 mins
  -> as you wish Yvonne :) I was just covering all bases and if you read on in my post, you will see how I ended up...

agree  philgoddard
1 hr
  -> thanks Phil

agree  Anastasia Andriani: excellent answer
5 hrs
  -> thanks Anastasia

agree  Elisabeth Richard
7 hrs
  -> thanks Elisabeth

agree  Sanaz Khanjani
9 hrs
  -> thanks Sanaz

neutral  B D Finch: I don't think it is at all ambiguous.
10 hrs
  -> bit of a grey area but thanks B.D.
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6 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Flattering jarls with father


Explanation:
Linguistically speaking, the text implies that Hamund was "drinking ale and flattering jarls" with both activities having been done together with father.
Otherwise, you use a comma to separate two syntaxic units, as is hereby exemplified:
Hamund's temper flared (up):
Perhaps if you had spent less time drinking ale(,) and flattering jarls with father(,).......

As you see, the speech hiatuses are marked by commas.

Later, if the writer is not Anglophone and forgot the good use of punctuation, that is not known to me.

Gabriel Ferrero
France
Local time: 13:13
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Yvonne Gallagher: not about simply adding a comma
8 hrs
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