Ms. or Mrs.

English translation: Dr.

16:16 Jan 23, 2013

English language (monolingual) [Non-PRO]
Social Science, Sociology, Ethics, etc.

English term or phrase: Ms. or Mrs.

Article about a prominent female scientist, am not sure of the latest PC edicts in this regard.
For e.g. "Frau Prof. Dr. Daisy von Entenhausen" I would simply drop the Frau bit in my translation.
However, it often comes up as "Frau von Entenhausen", am unsure whether Ms. or Mrs. is more appropriate here. Heaven forbid I should irk the PC police....
Thanks for your input.

Jonathan MacKerron

Selected answer:Dr.

Explanation:
In my opinion, even if the German leaves the title off, I would use the title. The person has earned it and it was used once, so I would put the title in there whenever the original has "Frau SoundSo."

Of course, you should also put a note to the client on this.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 20 mins (2013-01-23 16:37:48 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Yeah, my wife is a physician and I was NEVER Der Herr Doktor, but if *I* were the physician, she would ALWAYS have been Die Frau Doktor. Oh, well, I will just have to content myself with all my other talents :)

Selected response from:

jccantrell
United States
Local time: 23:17

Grading comment

Selected automatically based on peer agreement.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

SUMMARY OF ALL EXPLANATIONS PROVIDED

4 +5

Dr.

jccantrell

4 +1

Ms., but just the last name or professor whenever possible.

Jenni Lukac (X)

4 +1

Neither, just "Prof."

B D Finch

Drop it altogether

Paul Lambert

Discussion entries: 8

Maurite Fober

Australia

Check with the publication

05:06 Jan 24, 2013

Different periodicals have different conventions; I would check with the journal's (or whatever medium it is) editorial office if you can't quickly & easily check some of their other articles.

Sven Petersson

Sweden

NOTE!

20:20 Jan 23, 2013

Don´t forget that a surgeon is never titled "Dr." in U.K. English. He/she is titled "Mr.", resp. "Ms."

Charles Davis

Spain

20:20 Jan 23, 2013

I think the title "Professor" is used in Germany as in the US, for all (tenured) university teachers, not just full professors, but I am not completely sure, and it would nice to have this confirmed or refuted by a colleague who knows for sure.

B D Finch

France

@Charles

19:16 Jan 23, 2013

I was forgetting that in the US "professors" are what we would call "lecturers" in the UK (where only real professors with chairs get to use that title). That does mean that it all depends whether the German usage is equivalent to that in the US or the UK.

Charles Davis

Spain

18:57 Jan 23, 2013

For academics the safest default option is always "Dr X", assuming they have a doctorate (which virtually all do these days, and we know this one does). I would use it every time, no matter how monotonous. Referring to an academic with a doctorate as "Mr/Mrs/Miss/Ms" in a professional context is just not on; it would be positively disrespectful.

"Professor" is trickier. If the target is US, it can certainly be done, though actually in a research context "Dr" is preferred anyway. But if the target is UK, you should only call her "Professor" if you know she has a chair.

And of course putting both "Prof." and "Dr.", in the German manner, is out of the question.

B D Finch

France

When translating localise!

18:20 Jan 23, 2013

In French, if you accidentally knock over a policeman you'd say "Pardon, monsieur l'agent!". In English, you wouldn't say "I'm so sorry Mr Officer!". (Of course in either case, you might just say "shit!" and run away.)

Jenni Lukac (X)

16:48 Jan 23, 2013

I think just about all these terms can be varied throughout the translation, just as it would be for a male subject, but I'd avoid "Mrs" like the plague.

Jonathan MacKerron

ASKER

Her name comes up nearly 30 times

16:44 Jan 23, 2013

Mostly as "Prof. von Entenhausen" and "Frau von Entenhausen". Once as "Daisy von Entenhausen".
The "Frau Prof. Dr. Daisy von Entenhausen" appears only once in the introduction.

Answers

8 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +5

ms. or mrs.

Dr.

jccantrell
United States
Local time: 23:17
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 4

Grading comment

Selected automatically based on peer agreement.

Notes to answerer

Asker: Yes, was also a bit baffled that they left it out, will ask the contractor what gives here - thx.

1 min confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

ms. or mrs. Ms., but just the last name or professor whenever possible.

Explanation:
This, of course, is an opinion.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 mins (2013-01-23 16:20:04 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Also - when using Ms. (or Mrs.), you should drop the first name and only follow it with the last name.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 30 mins (2013-01-23 16:47:06 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Jonathan: you're very safe with Ms. Everyone is so used to it now that even the "PC" label has worn off.

Jenni Lukac (X)
Local time: 08:17
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 7

Notes to answerer

Asker: Thanks - so either way we can agree on "Ms."?

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

agree

Jocelyne S: Agree entirely. Use either first name or Ms., not both (e.g. Janice Smith or Ms. Smith; Professor Janice Smith works too, although somewhat wordy). Personally (were I a Smith), I would prefer to be referred to as Prof. Smith, slightly more prestigious.

4 mins

-> Thanks, Jocelyne. We don't stack them together in English. As you say, whatever could be considered most prestigious in the context (Dr., Professor, although a lot of the English-language academic journals I translate for lop off both Dr. and Prof...)

neutral

Sven Petersson: "Ms." could, in U.K. English, create the impression that the lady is a surgeon. - Addendum and explanation: An MD changes title from "Dr." to "Mr." resp "Ms." if he/she becomes a consultant (Oberartz) surgeon.

4 hrs

-> http://www.informatics.sussex.ac.uk/department/docs/punctuat... Just like "Dr" in American English could be confused with a medical doctor, although it's used for other disciplines.

45 mins confidence:

ms. or mrs. Drop it altogether

Explanation:
Another option, but not the only one:
Drop the Mrs, miss, ms, mr altogether.
Writing out the full first name always indicates a woman, while men abbreviate their first names with initials.

Thus, J. Smith might be "John Smith" but never "Jane Smith", who would always have her first name in full, and then subsequently be referred to by her first name, "Jane" while "John Smith" would subsequently be called "Smith".

Paul Lambert
Sweden
Local time: 08:17
Works in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 4

1 hr confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

ms. or mrs. Neither, just "Prof."

Explanation:
In English one would never combine Ms, Mr or Mrs with "Prof". Also, one assumes that a Professor is a Dr. but you would never use both titles, only the more important one. The Dr bit can be made clear if their quals are listed after their name.

For a woman who is neither a professor nor a doctor, use Ms unless you know she would prefer a different form of address.

B D Finch
France
Local time: 08:17
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 12

Login or register (free and only takes a few minutes) to participate in this question.

You will also have access to many other tools and opportunities designed for those who have language-related jobs (or are passionate about them). Participation is free and the site has a strict confidentiality policy.

Return to KudoZ list

KudoZ™ translation help

The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators and others to assist each other with translations or explanations of terms and short phrases.

See also:

ProZ.com term search

Search millions of term translations

Ms. or Mrs.

English translation: Dr.

Answers

KudoZ™ translation help

Your current localization setting

Select a language

Ms. or Mrs.

English translation: Dr.

Answers

KudoZ™ translation help

You have native languages that can be verified

Your current localization setting

Select a language