à la relation

English translation: are used as a concrete expression of that relationship

08:17 May 12, 2010
French to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Anthropology
French term or phrase: à la relation
This is a short text about a protective statue, used in Madagascar during 19th century:

"Cet aspect la rapproche des traditions africaines où les statues de protection appellent la presence d’un esprit pour se garantir des aléas de l’avenir et servent de support à la relation."

It's the "a la relation" that's troubling me. All advice gratefully received.
Anna Jones
Local time: 05:55
English translation:are used as a concrete expression of that relationship
Explanation:
I think you really need to take the expression as a whole in order for it not to sound 'clunky'

'concrete support' is one of the suggestions given in R+C that I feel is particularly apposite here.

I find 'servir de...' is often most naturally translated by the passive 'are used as...' in EN

As for "...appellent la presence d’un esprit...", I would be inclined to use something like '...invoke the presence of a spirit...'
Selected response from:

Tony M
France
Local time: 06:55
Grading comment
Tony, I particularly liked this version which was clear and succinct. Thank you
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +1and serve as a support for the relationship
Chris Hall
3 +2are used as a concrete expression of that relationship
Tony M
3 +1relationship
mimi 254
Summary of reference entries provided
guardian figures
Evans (X)

Discussion entries: 2





  

Answers


20 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
et servent de support à la relation
and serve as a support for the relationship


Explanation:
où les statues de protection appellent la presence d’un esprit pour se garantir des aléas de l’avenir et servent de support à la relation
=
where the statues of protection (protective statues) call upon the presence of a spirit in order to protect it against future vagaries / uncertainties and serve as a support for the relationship

Source: http://www.wordreference.com/fren/support



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Note added at 21 mins (2010-05-12 08:39:02 GMT)
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servir de support à quelque chose
=
to serve as a support for something

Chris Hall
Local time: 05:55
Native speaker of: English

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Kathy Gingras
8 hrs
  -> Many thanks Kathy - your support is much appreciated. Kind regards, Chris.
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
servent de support à la relation
are used as a concrete expression of that relationship


Explanation:
I think you really need to take the expression as a whole in order for it not to sound 'clunky'

'concrete support' is one of the suggestions given in R+C that I feel is particularly apposite here.

I find 'servir de...' is often most naturally translated by the passive 'are used as...' in EN

As for "...appellent la presence d’un esprit...", I would be inclined to use something like '...invoke the presence of a spirit...'


Tony M
France
Local time: 06:55
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 12
Grading comment
Tony, I particularly liked this version which was clear and succinct. Thank you

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Jennifer White: I quite agree. Literal translations often sound "clunky" and this is an elegant rendering./I agree. I, too, wonder sometimes where true scholarship and professionalism has gone
6 hrs
  -> Thank you so much, Jennifer! I was beginning to doubt myself, when people start ganging up on me; but I suppose it's only to be expected, with the stupid 'cliques' we get on here. Thank goodness some of us are above that sort of thing... ;-)

agree  philgoddard: Yes, this is "support" in the sense of "medium of expression".
7 hrs
  -> Thanks, Phil! That's certainly the way I read it: a tangible, physical object that channels the spirit presence into the 'real' world...
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
relationship


Explanation:
are the base or the medium of the relationship

mimi 254
Local time: 06:55
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 12

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  B D Finch: Even though "servent de support" wasn't included in the term asked about, I think it probably should have been and agree with Catharine's discussion point.
2 hrs
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Reference comments


47 mins peer agreement (net): +1
Reference: guardian figures

Reference information:
Some examples of the use of "guardian figures" rather than protective statuese:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/cultures/mesopotamia_ga...

https://www.princeton.edu/pr/news/02/q1/0202-chinesetomb.htm

http://www.britishmuseum.org/explore/highlights/highlight_ob...

Evans (X)
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 8

Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
agree  Chris Hall
2 hrs
  -> thanks, Chris
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