ciste

English translation: situla or cista (depending on context and description)

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:ciste
English translation:situla or cista (depending on context and description)
Entered by: cchat

18:56 Aug 28, 2015
French to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Archaeology / Etruscan bronze
French term or phrase: ciste
The context is a description of an Etruscan wine service found among grave goods dating from ca. 400 BCE.
One of the pieces is a cylindrical bucket for diluting wine:
"la ciste (seau pour le mélange de l’eau et du vin) est typique du nord de l’Italie."
It corresponds to definition no 2 in J. Girard, Dictionnaire critique et raisonné des termes d'art et d'archéologie:
"sort de seau cylindrique en bronze dont l'origine remonte à l'age du fer... Il est muni d'une anse en seau, ou de deux anses latérales...
I haven't come up with an English equivalent. "Kiste" seems to refer to an ancient Greek box or chest; "cistus," a flower.
Can anyone help?
Thanks
Donald
Donald Pistolesi
Local time: 17:56
situla
Explanation:
Situla, from the Latin for bucket or pail, is a term for a variety of elaborate bucket-shaped vessels from the Iron Age to the Middle Ages, usually with a handle at the top. All types may be highly decorated with reliefs in bands or friezes running round the vessel.

In the crater the wine is shown being mixed with water, contained in the situla (B).



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Note added at 21 hrs (2015-08-29 16:02:28 GMT)
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To Asker: It is quite tricky, as you say.
Here is another online reference, describing both situla (or sitella) and cista, which may help you decide.
It's from: William Smith, D.C.L., LL.D.: A Dictionary of Greek and Roman Antiquities. John Murray, London, 1875.

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/secondary/...
Selected response from:

cchat
Grading comment
I am not worthy to award points, only to offer thanks to all. Both cista and situla seem appropriate - and I have included them both, glossed, in my translation. But see http://www.metmuseum.org/collection/the-collection-online/search/247040. This is a reputable institution, and the image is virtually identical to the object I am dealing with.
3 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +1cista
DLyons
4kiste
Howard Sugar
3 +1situla
cchat
Summary of reference entries provided
cist
cchat

Discussion entries: 6





  

Answers


27 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
cista


Explanation:
Cista Mystica. A cylindrical vase
https://books.google.ie/books?id=ATqbCISVNiIC&pg=PA64

DLyons
Ireland
Local time: 21:56
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  philgoddard: Cist appears to be OK too.
7 mins
  -> Thanks Phil.

neutral  B D Finch: They seem to have lids but no handles and don't look much like buckets.
2 hrs
  -> Thanks Barbara. Multiple uses I think.
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13 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
kiste


Explanation:
From Girls and Women in Classical Greek Religion
by Matthew Dillon page 370
"Kiste-cylindrical chest, containing sacrificial items or sacred object; carried on head"
The original sense of the word meant basket. It was then used to carry objects for voltive offerings. In time it meant an urn in the shape of the basket (and the ancient Greeks also used the term to mean womb)

Example sentence(s):
  • The couple are shown in paintings on either side of the niche with a curious large urn (kiste) between them which suggests them to be members of some sort of undetermined religious cult.
  • Clement of Alexandria has reported the contents of such a synthema as follows: "I fasted; I drank the kykeon; I took from the kiste [a cylindrical reliquary]; having done my task, I placed in the basket, and from the basket into the kiste" (Protreptikos,

    Reference: http://understandingrome.com/going-underground-the-columbari...
    Reference: http://www.bsu.edu/classes/magrath/305s01/demeter/eleusis.ht...
Howard Sugar
Italy
Local time: 22:56
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
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35 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
situla


Explanation:
Situla, from the Latin for bucket or pail, is a term for a variety of elaborate bucket-shaped vessels from the Iron Age to the Middle Ages, usually with a handle at the top. All types may be highly decorated with reliefs in bands or friezes running round the vessel.

In the crater the wine is shown being mixed with water, contained in the situla (B).



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 21 hrs (2015-08-29 16:02:28 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

To Asker: It is quite tricky, as you say.
Here is another online reference, describing both situla (or sitella) and cista, which may help you decide.
It's from: William Smith, D.C.L., LL.D.: A Dictionary of Greek and Roman Antiquities. John Murray, London, 1875.

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/secondary/...



    Reference: http://www.fupress.net/index.php/pm/article/viewFile/1544/14...
    Reference: http://global.britannica.com/art/situla
cchat
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 21
Grading comment
I am not worthy to award points, only to offer thanks to all. Both cista and situla seem appropriate - and I have included them both, glossed, in my translation. But see http://www.metmuseum.org/collection/the-collection-online/search/247040. This is a reputable institution, and the image is virtually identical to the object I am dealing with.
Notes to answerer
Asker: “Situla” does seem appropriate to the object’s use and general shape, but French has the word “situle”. Again referring to Jacques Girard, Dictionnaire critique et raisonné des termes d’art et d’archéolgie (Klincksieck 1997), at “situle’: “Récipient conique en bronze muni d’une anse. Comme la ciste fabriquée dès l’âge du fer en Italie du Nord...”. Admittedly this source is a general reference, but it seems to indicate that French distinguishes the two terms. And the “ciste” I am dealing with is attributed to Northern Italy and was found in Belgium. (And, yes, I should have provided more context about an item so specific.)

Asker: I have considered many online references, and it is very hard to be categorical. Thank you for your help.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  B D Finch
2 hrs
  -> Thanks.
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Reference comments


20 mins
Reference: cist

Reference information:
Irish Bronze Age Cists: A Survey


    Reference: http://www.jstor.org/stable/25509732
cchat
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 21
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