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French to English translations [PRO] Social Sciences - Education / Pedagogy
French term or phrase:école républicaine
In this guide aimed at teachers delivering lessons on the history of Africa, one section looks at the current challenges that the continent is facing.
Students are prompted to complete a number of activities around education challenges, including:
"Identifier les défis de l’éducation dans votre pays ou région Organiser des débats sur les problèmes auxquels l’Ecole dans votre pays fait face aujourd’hui Dire ce que doit faire l’Etat pour sauvegarder l’Ecole républicaine"
As this is resolutely not aimed at French schools (and not all African states are republics), how should I interpet the notion of 'école républicaine'? Simply 'state schools' or something a little deeper, such as 'schools operating in accordance with republican principles'?
I deleted my answers since some of my "learned" colleagues are trying to invent hot water. I have been in the teaching trade in France for more than 40 years and often met opposite numbers British or American. And they perfectly understood what the "State school system" meant. In France, nowadays, every interested person be it z pzrent, a teacher, a head-master knows that "école républicaine", "école publique" or "école laïque" is exactly the same thing. Under the IIIrd Republic (1870-1940), school masters in elementary "state schools" were called "Black hussars of the Republic", and their main mission was to compete (and win!) against "congregational or religious schoolsé Still well known competition in the western part of France. A "Jules FERRY' (1822-1893) passed a law making mandatory the creation of an elementary school (free and mandatory) in each city, town, big village, for boys and girls (not yet mixed classes) for the "people children' (republican value). Of course it is a long, long story, but in the relevant case, I strongly believe the best translation would be "State schools system" (not "Public schools", of course).
@ Eliza Why use media when it's going to bring up contemporaneous use where the French republic and its ideals are rarely, if ever, discussed in English media? Obviously, if you put "French republican values " or some such you are going to get a much different result! https://www.google.com/search?q=french republican values&rlz... and guess what shows up! "Why look at contemporary media rather than dictionaries for a historical term?? Anyway, assez! I contend that none of the answers are 100% or even close w/o ref to the word républicaine, uncapitalised in both Fr and En. It's an adj. here with school, also uncapitalised in English (as not a proper noun).
Yvonne, I'm sorry if I touched a nerve. I do think that regardless of what order a dictionary lists definitions in, you can understand how words are most commonly used if you search for those words in the media.
UK, Canadian and American major-newspaper sites all bring up links on the Republican party (and in the UK, the Irish Republic itself or the IRA) before, and in far greater numbers than, links on "republican forms of government" in the French sense.
The only site I found in the English-speaking world that had anything else in the first page of results was the Irish Times, and even they had one article (of the first eight) referring to "the Irish republican mindset," another discussing "republican fringe group Saoradh" (an Irish political party formed by "dissident republicans" in the Irish-republican sense) and another four referring to the US Republican party. So that's six out of eight articles, in the Irish Times, NOT using the term in the French sense. The numbers were even more skewed in non-Irish news sources.
And of course I know about the French Republic and its ideals. I'm simply saying that "Republican" or "republican" is not a good English translation for it.
@ Eliza I don't need dictionary links for definitions of "republican" (with and without a capital) as I already know it's got several meanings but I gave YOU the link since you persisted in mentioning only 2 meanings of the word, neither of which are the PRIMARY meaning, particularly on a worldwide basis, which is: "a supporter of government by elected representatives of the people rather than government by a king or queen". There are republicans in this sense in many countries, including in the UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand who wish to live in a republic rather than in a monarchy. Only the most racist of Brits would conflate the IRA with the Republic of Ireland/Irish people as you have done. The ROI was proclaimed in 1916 on the basis of FRENCH REPUBLIC values/motto of: "Liberty, equality, fraternity", (as were many other republics world-wide). And this is the sense of "republican" HERE French republican values are not at all synonymous with the IRA. Ignorance is no excuse for giving offence. Not all Americans are as ignorant of world history but it seems strange that someone working from French knows zilch about the French Republic and its ideals.
Sorry, you're right about the French original's capitalization.
For clarity, the reason "républicain(e)" isn't generally capitalized in French isn't because of some special feature of that word. It's just because it's an adjective, and therefore it's almost never the first word of a title or sentence. When it is -- for instance, if it's the name of a newspaper -- it's capitalized (e.g. Le Républicain Lorrain https://www.republicain-lorrain.fr/).
Under French capitalization rules, only the first word is capitalized, or if it's a grammatical article then it and the subsequent noun are capitalized ("Le X bla bla"). That contrasts with English rules, which capitalize the whole title apart from very short connecting words (Proust's "In Search of Lost Time" vs. "A la recherche du temps perdu"; Steinbeck's "The Grapes of Wrath" vs. "Les Raisins de la colère"). So "'Ecole républicaine," if you were doing a word-for-word translation and didn't care about accuracy of meaning, should probably be translated and capitalized as "Republican School."
Ph_B (X)
France
19:01 Apr 4, 2019
"And the French original is even capitalized." Just for the record: only École is capitalized, and not every time. That never applies to républicaine, which is always written in lower case.
If you're offended by me, are you even more offended by the fact that the Oxford English Dictionary defines "republican" as, among other things, "an advocate of a united Ireland"? Also, search "republican" on https://www.bbc.co.uk. You'll get the Republican party, and... yes, articles about members of the IRA.
And I agree with you that it would be great if the general public were more literate in history. But they're not, and we're translating for this world, not the world as it should be.
You asked, "As for assuming that every American... thinks of the Republican Party when they see the word 'republican' is quite an assumption to make. Are you saying people's vocabulary is really that poor?"
Yes. Yes, I am. Honestly, nearly 65 million American adults voted for Trump. We're not geniuses here. And the French original is even capitalized, as is François Boye's proposed translation. Republican with a capital R is guaranteed to be perceived by virtually all Americans as meaning the Republican party.
And by Canadians too. I just ran a search for "republican" on the website of the Toronto Globe & Mail (major Canadian newspaper). Guess what came up?
@ Eliza Frankly I find your contention re the IRA ludicrous and quite offensive. I think a few history classes wouldn't go amiss, or at least a bit of reading. As for assuming that every American (or Canadian for that matter) thinks of the Republican Party when they see the word 'republican' is quite an assumption to make. Are you saying people's vocabulary is really that poor? And anyway, the world doesn't revolve around the USA. https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/republic... or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republicanism I repeat, you (and others) are only giving part of the answer here. Read what Ph_B has written and the links I've given to get the principles on which such a school is based (even if it's not completely the reality these days, or ever).
As the title states. Nowhere in the English-speaking world does "Republican" mean even close to the same thing as "Républicain." In the US... well you know (Trump, etc.). In the UK... Irish Republican Army; the Irish Republic is probably the first thing most British people think of when they hear the word "Republican," unless they follow US politics, in which case Trump and his minions are the first thing they think of and Ireland is the second.
This is a classic example of a faux ami.
So forget "Republican." It's the wrong translation.
And Daryo, I don't agree that "l'école laïque" is hard to translate. "Secular schools" -- see, I did it :)
But since laïc doesn't mean publicly funded, that concept needs to be added to the translation as well, to get as close as possible to the concept of the French original.
Ph_B (X)
France
École laïque
17:38 Apr 3, 2019
addresses only the religious part of the answer. École républicaine is also about being state-run and about teaching the same thing to everyone everywhere within the Republic - du moins en théorie. It's about building a nation. May sound odd nowadays but not in the context of the French 1880s.
"l'école républicaine" is just another name for "l'école laïc".
Not that it helps much finding the right translation, as "l'école laïc" is as much difficult to translate, being a specifically French concept.
Ph_B (X)
France
14:04 Apr 3, 2019
Any chance you could steer away from that republican thing if this is meant for an English-speaking audience which may not be familiar with the concept of "l'École républicaine" ? I realise its importance since it's a history lesson but could you not just try to find adjectives or a turn of phrase etc. that would convey the same idea (and possibly add a translator's note about "l'École républicaine")? This is going to be an interesting question!
Ph_B (X)
France
École républicaine and religion
13:44 Apr 3, 2019
I didn't have enough space above but "state schools" doesn't necessarily mean that religion is absent. In British state schools for instance, there's a daily prayer in assembly or otherwise. It isn't compulsory, of course. However, under no circumstances will "l'École républicaine" allow any public act of worship whatsoever.
Ph_B (X)
France
state schools vs. École républicaine
13:37 Apr 3, 2019
I'm not sure that "state" does justice to what "l'École républicaine" implies/stands for. Backtranslated, "state school system" would be something like l'Éducation nationale and again that doesn't really cover l'École républicaine. This phrase refers to values, or principles as you said in your intro, which the IIIrd French Republic allegedly set out to defend. It's also what this teaching activity is about. Good info from the Bibliothèque nationale de France here: ...une révolution éducative majeure : la création d'une école laïque, gratuite, obligatoire et suivant un programme commun à toutes les régions et toutes les classes sociales françaises...de nombreux républicains pensent que la consolidation de la République passe par l’école. Il s’agit de laïciser l’école afin d’affranchir les consciences de l’emprise de l’Église et de fortifier la patrie en formant des citoyens (https://www.retronews.fr/cycle/lecole-republicaine-une-insti... I'm afraid I don't have anything to suggest, but I find "state" a bit bland here. Surely, if that's what your author meant, wouldn't they have used e.g. "écoles publiques"?
I think that, especially in the context of developing African nations, "traditional" schools could be interpreted as some other model of education entirely.
