sommier

English translation: "sommier" [accoutrements bearer]

15:42 Oct 18, 2020
French to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - History / description of 17th century Versaillies
French term or phrase: sommier
I cannot find this term anywhere. The King's retinue included:

"deux sommiers, qui portent les coffres et ornements de la Chapelle, les tapis et coussins destinés au roi et à sa famille ;un lavandier ou blanchisseur, garant de l’éclat des vêtements et ornements liturgiques ; mais aussi des précepteurs chargés de seconder le sous-maître auprès des pages, qui ont également un maître de luth
ormiston
Local time: 02:15
English translation:"sommier" [accoutrements bearer]
Explanation:
I did a trawl though archives too but can't find any equivalent in English for this and see it retained in French everywhere. So I'd retain it with an explanation of role in square brackets. (Royal Chapel later in sentence). Apparently they were not just reponsible for carrying the accoutrements but also for laundering them and repairing them when required.

I did a big translation on Versailles earlier this year and this term didn't crop up at all (nor do I see it on the Vesailles webiste) but the King's Royal Household had numerous servants, all with quite ostentatious titles. See here:

http://thisisversaillesmadame.blogspot.com/2014/09/the-kings...
Note there is also a "portefaix" which would translate more readily as a "porter"

It is not such a lowly position it seems, judging by the salary on offer and the fact the role was passed from father to son. But then any role where touching a royal item was involved was considered to be important.

I also had a look through various English Royal Household records to see if there is a specific term that might be used
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Households_of_the_United...

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Note added at 1 day 23 hrs (2020-10-20 15:25:24 GMT)
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or "Royal Officer of Chapel Accoutrements" though more long winded. But then many of these positions have very long titles!!

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Note added at 4 days (2020-10-23 12:28:01 GMT) Post-grading
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Glad to have helped.
Selected response from:

Yvonne Gallagher
Ireland
Local time: 01:15
Grading comment
Many thanks to all the thoughtful contributions elsewhere too
3 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4porter
Bokani Hart
4 -1draught horse
Catharine Cellier-Smart
3"sommier" [accoutrements bearer]
Yvonne Gallagher
3 -1solid base
Lisa Rosengard
Summary of reference entries provided
Sommiers de chapelle
Althea Draper

Discussion entries: 12





  

Answers


33 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
draught horse


Explanation:
Le Moyen-âge. Pour le voyage, on emploie le roussin, près de terre et résistant ; enfin, à l’extrémité inférieure de la hiérarchie équine, on trouve le sommier, destiné aux plus humbles besognes : bât, trait, culture, etc. — (E. Saurel, Le cheval, équitation et sports hippiques, 408 p., page 40, 1966, Larousse)
https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/sommier#Nom_commun

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheval_de_trait
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft_horse

Catharine Cellier-Smart
Reunion
Local time: 05:15
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 8

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Mélanie Wisbey (X): Bête de somme yes, however this is a person, I haven't found any references describing a person in this way.
10 mins

disagree  Bokani Hart: Draft animals pull loads, but do not carry them and the sommiers in this case 'portent les coffres...'
13 mins

neutral  Yvonne Gallagher: Not horses here
17 hrs
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
porter


Explanation:
A porter carries luggage and other loads

Bokani Hart
United Kingdom
Local time: 01:15
Native speaker of: English

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  SafeTex: with this type of question, you pretty much need a reference or is this just a guess?
1 hr
  -> Brobeck, J. (1995). Musical Patronage in the Royal Chapel of France under Francis I (r. 1515-1547). Journal of the American Musicological Society, 48(2), 187-239. doi:10.2307/3128814 ..for the porter who bears the books and ornaments of the said chapel..

neutral  writeaway: agree with SafeTex. At least one valid ref is needed to make this credible
6 hrs
  -> Lally, Edward Joseph, "The Social Spirit of the Age of Louis XIV: 1650 - 1714" (1941). Master's Theses. Paper 474. http://ecommons.luc.edu/luc_theses/474 ..a simple Councillor, in 1675, kept a secretary, a master of the House, two menservants, a porter..

neutral  Gordon Matthews: or "bearer".
15 hrs

neutral  Yvonne Gallagher: Doubt very much this word fits this context though it does seem to be the role//Gordon's "bearer" slightly better .
16 hrs

neutral  ph-b (X): would agree with Gordon Matthews's "bearer"
1 day 11 hrs
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15 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -1
solid base


Explanation:
The definition is a solid base, though the following phrase tells that it bears (supports, wears, brings or carries). This might question whether it's a person or an object. Since the description is of a king with an entourage (accompanying group) I believe it's an object.

"Il y a aussi des percepteurs chargés de seconder le sous-maître auprès des pages, qui ont également un maître de luth."

"There are also two collectors responsible for assisting the deputy master concerning events with a musical string instrument master."

A lute (luth) is an ancient pear-shaped musical string instrument.

Liturgical is of a prescribed form of public worship.


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Note added at 15 hrs (2020-10-19 07:24:10 GMT)
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Liturgique est d'une réligion publique.

Un lute est un ancien instrument de musique à cord, à la forme d'une poire.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 18 hrs (2020-10-19 10:11:26 GMT)
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https://fr.thefreedictionary.com/sommier

'sommier' is a bed base, support

'sommier' is a 'wind chest'
https://www.linguee.com/english-french/search?query=sommier

A 'lute' (luth) is a stringed musical instrument
https://www.thefreedictionary.com/lute



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Note added at 1 day 20 hrs (2020-10-20 11:50:08 GMT)
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"Un sommier est un châssis de bois ou de métal dont l'intérieur est diversement garni et sur lequel repose le matélas."

https://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais/sommier/73416...

It's a wooden or metal frame of which the interior is decorated or garnished, and on which a mattress can rest.

Example sentence(s):
  • "Il y a deux sommiers, qui portent les coffres et ornaments de la Chapelle, les tapis et coussins destinés au roi et à sa famille, un lavendier ou blanchisseur, garant de l'éclat des vêtements et ornaments liturgiques, mais aussi des percepteurs charg
  • There are two solid bases bearing chests or containers and chapel ornaments, rugs or coverings, cushions for the king and his family, lavender or washing facilities, ensurer of brightly decorative clothing and liturgical ornaments"
Lisa Rosengard
United Kingdom
Local time: 01:15
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
Notes to answerer
Asker: Contextbis everything when translating and all this input misses the mark. See others' comments.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Emmanuella: https://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais/lavandier/464... Solid base/ it = neutral/object and not a person
1 hr

disagree  Yvonne Gallagher: It's a person, not a musical instrument!! NOR a "solid base". You can't pick the first meaning from a dictionary. You have to look at the actual context. Read the reference
2 hrs

neutral  Shelley Upton: The OED also lists 'A load-bearing beam in a building' as an obsolete meaning for the derivative term 'summer' so I can see where this is coming from. Ain't language wonderful!
2 days 4 hrs
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1 day 23 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
"sommier" [accoutrements bearer]


Explanation:
I did a trawl though archives too but can't find any equivalent in English for this and see it retained in French everywhere. So I'd retain it with an explanation of role in square brackets. (Royal Chapel later in sentence). Apparently they were not just reponsible for carrying the accoutrements but also for laundering them and repairing them when required.

I did a big translation on Versailles earlier this year and this term didn't crop up at all (nor do I see it on the Vesailles webiste) but the King's Royal Household had numerous servants, all with quite ostentatious titles. See here:

http://thisisversaillesmadame.blogspot.com/2014/09/the-kings...
Note there is also a "portefaix" which would translate more readily as a "porter"

It is not such a lowly position it seems, judging by the salary on offer and the fact the role was passed from father to son. But then any role where touching a royal item was involved was considered to be important.

I also had a look through various English Royal Household records to see if there is a specific term that might be used
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Households_of_the_United...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 23 hrs (2020-10-20 15:25:24 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

or "Royal Officer of Chapel Accoutrements" though more long winded. But then many of these positions have very long titles!!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 days (2020-10-23 12:28:01 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Glad to have helped.

Yvonne Gallagher
Ireland
Local time: 01:15
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 11
Grading comment
Many thanks to all the thoughtful contributions elsewhere too
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)




Reference comments


2 hrs peer agreement (net): +7
Reference: Sommiers de chapelle

Reference information:
"D’après le dictionnaire de l’Académie Française de 1694, on appelle chez le Roy, Sommier de Chapelle, un certain Officier qui a le soin de faire porter à l’Eglise, à la Chapelle, le drap de pied et les carreaux, du Roy et de la Reyne. Les carreaux étaient les grandes étoffes sur lesquels le Roi et la Reine s’agenouillaient. Au temps de Rolin, le roi était Louis XIV que nous pouvons admiré sur le tableau ci-dessous priant sur son carreau.
Dans Le grand aumônier de France et le diocèse de la Chapelle royale sous Louis XIV, Alexandre Maral nous décrit que la Chapelle-Oratoire comprenait deux officiers laïcs, les sommiers : chargés d’assister les clercs de Chapelle pour transporter les coffres de la Chapelle-Oratoire partout où le roi devait entendre la messe, ils devaient éventuellement dresser un autel portatif dans le choeur de l’église où le roi se rendait, si le chapitre local avait le privilège de ne laisser officier au maître-autel que des chanoines.


    Reference: http://enquetedenotrehistoire.com/n-comme-noblet-rolin-sommi...
Althea Draper
United Kingdom
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
agree  Emmanuella
42 mins
agree  Bokani Hart
2 hrs
agree  Yvonne Gallagher
15 hrs
agree  Suzie Withers: Great research! We learn something new every day :)
18 hrs
agree  ph-b (X)
18 hrs
agree  Wolf Draeger
18 hrs
agree  Cyril Tollari
1 day 3 hrs
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