ASCENDANT

English translation: to have/take the upper hand, to be in the driving seat, to be domineering

18:34 Mar 27, 2021
French to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Journalism / Biography
French term or phrase: ASCENDANT
(I just submitted a question about this line to Proz.com, but this is a different term than that):

I am translating an account of the meeting of Michael Jackson and Lisa Marie Presley.

She was impressed by his lack of pretentiousness, and then it states:

"Elle qui appréciait les hommes avec un ASCENDANT était servie".

I first asked about SERVIE, but I am now asking would "ancestry" be appropriate for "ASCENDANT"?

Thank you!

RE Anderson
Chicago, IL, USA
Robert Anderson
United States
Local time: 16:56
English translation:to have/take the upper hand, to be in the driving seat, to be domineering
Explanation:
"She who appreciated men who had the upper hand (had) got what she was (had been) looking for".

"... that the man was in the driving seat...."

"...domineering men..."

prendre/avoir l'ascendant sur : to take/have the upper hand over someone


Just a couple of idiomatic suggestions.

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Note added at 17 hrs (2021-03-28 11:43:06 GMT)
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"Avec un ascendence" = avoir/prendre l'ascendent sur quelqu'un
Not to be confused with "être l'ascendent de quelqu'un".
My reading of the context is that we are unequivocally in the first situation and that this has nothing to do with how A may be related to B.

She likes a man who takes the power, who decides. Without further context, I don't think that we can go further than that, that there is no indication that this is "contrôle" or "emprise", nothing in the context suggesting that she wanted someone who would be controling or have a hold over her. However, it is tongue in cheek with the use of "être servi". There is irony there. In other words, whe wanted someone who took the control but not necessarily someone who was "controling"; there is a difference. But... further context may end up going more explcitily down that road, but... that is not indicated here.

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Note added at 17 hrs (2021-03-28 11:56:14 GMT)
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https://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/academie8/ascendant//1#:~:te...

"Il signifie aussi figurément Influence, autorité, pouvoir qu'une personne a sur l'esprit, sur la volonté d'une autre. Il a, il exerce un grand ascendant sur l'esprit de son frère. Il a pris un grand ascendant. L'ascendant du génie, de la vertu, des lumières, etc. Abuser de l'ascendant que l'on a sur quelqu'un. Usez de l'ascendant que vous avez sur lui."

https://dictionnaire.lerobert.com/definition/ascendant#:~:te...

"2. Influence dominante. ➙ autorité, empire, pouvoir."


"ASCENDANT, se dit en discours ordinaire d'une superiorité qu'un homme a sur l'esprit d'un autre qui provient d'une cause inconnuë. Pour gagner vôtre Rapporteur, employez un tel de ses amis, il a un grand ascendant sur son esprit."





Selected response from:

Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Local time: 23:56
Grading comment
Selected automatically based on peer agreement.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +2to have/take the upper hand, to be in the driving seat, to be domineering
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
4 +1commanding
Marco Solinas
4 +1DOMINANT
Yvonne Gallagher
4very influential/powerful
David Hayes
3ascendancy
Lisa Rosengard


Discussion entries: 4





  

Answers


51 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
very influential/powerful


Explanation:
Plenty of synonyms to chose from if you think 'ascendancy' is not the best choice (personally, I think ascendancy is fine too).

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Note added at 56 mins (2021-03-27 19:31:18 GMT)
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I obviously meant to write 'to choose from'

David Hayes
France
Local time: 23:56
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Nikki Scott-Despaigne: I quite like "ascendency" too. "Influential" and "powerful" tends to describe an effect on a large group of people even society at large. To personalise this to th scale of the individual "have influence/power over someone" probably a better fit.
12 hrs
  -> Fair point
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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
l'ascendant (avoir/prendre ... sur quelqu'un)
to have/take the upper hand, to be in the driving seat, to be domineering


Explanation:
"She who appreciated men who had the upper hand (had) got what she was (had been) looking for".

"... that the man was in the driving seat...."

"...domineering men..."

prendre/avoir l'ascendant sur : to take/have the upper hand over someone


Just a couple of idiomatic suggestions.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 hrs (2021-03-28 11:43:06 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"Avec un ascendence" = avoir/prendre l'ascendent sur quelqu'un
Not to be confused with "être l'ascendent de quelqu'un".
My reading of the context is that we are unequivocally in the first situation and that this has nothing to do with how A may be related to B.

She likes a man who takes the power, who decides. Without further context, I don't think that we can go further than that, that there is no indication that this is "contrôle" or "emprise", nothing in the context suggesting that she wanted someone who would be controling or have a hold over her. However, it is tongue in cheek with the use of "être servi". There is irony there. In other words, whe wanted someone who took the control but not necessarily someone who was "controling"; there is a difference. But... further context may end up going more explcitily down that road, but... that is not indicated here.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 hrs (2021-03-28 11:56:14 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

https://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/academie8/ascendant//1#:~:te...

"Il signifie aussi figurément Influence, autorité, pouvoir qu'une personne a sur l'esprit, sur la volonté d'une autre. Il a, il exerce un grand ascendant sur l'esprit de son frère. Il a pris un grand ascendant. L'ascendant du génie, de la vertu, des lumières, etc. Abuser de l'ascendant que l'on a sur quelqu'un. Usez de l'ascendant que vous avez sur lui."

https://dictionnaire.lerobert.com/definition/ascendant#:~:te...

"2. Influence dominante. ➙ autorité, empire, pouvoir."


"ASCENDANT, se dit en discours ordinaire d'une superiorité qu'un homme a sur l'esprit d'un autre qui provient d'une cause inconnuë. Pour gagner vôtre Rapporteur, employez un tel de ses amis, il a un grand ascendant sur son esprit."







Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Local time: 23:56
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 8
Grading comment
Selected automatically based on peer agreement.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Conor McAuley: Had the upper hand, but not domineering.
1 day 15 hrs
  -> Yes. "Domineering" and to a greate extent "controlling" are terms that convey a much more intense level and lean towards "emprise" which is not mentionned here. Domineering perhaps less so?

agree  Cyril Tollari: upper hand https://ichbiah.com/extraits/michael-jackson/michael-jackson...
13 days

neutral  Yvonne Gallagher: really a disagree for all of these as none really fit imho. And it's dominant NOT domineering that's correct here.
14 days
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16 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
commanding


Explanation:
"commanding men" or "authoritative men should" do it. It has to do with ascendancy, not ancestry.

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Note added at 20 hrs (2021-03-28 14:35:52 GMT)
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"men with a commanding presence" would work too.

Marco Solinas
Local time: 14:56
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in ItalianItalian
PRO pts in category: 6

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  philgoddard
5 hrs
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1 day 4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
ascendancy


Explanation:
An ascendant is either an ancestor (a person from whom one is descended (forerunner) or an ascendancy, which is a condition of being dominant.
Alongside the others who describe powerful and influential characteristics, it means
'She who appreciated influential men was being attended.'
(FR: Elle qui apréciait les hommes influents était servie.'

Lisa Rosengard
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:56
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 4
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1 day 18 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
DOMINANT


Explanation:
I think this is the best fit. Michael HaJackson had an agebnda in marrying Lisa Marie as he wanted her to give him Presley-gene babies. Her mother thought he was manipulative and scheming and Lisa-Marie seemed to agree withthat assessment after the marriage broke up after just a couple of years.

So "controlling" could possibly be used here but I think DOMINANT is better. I would not use "ascendant" at all and "domineering" is similar to "contriolling".

Does someone actually enter into a controlling or domineering relationship? I think not. Far too negative even if the reality turns out like that.

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Note added at 1 day 18 hrs (2021-03-29 12:56:42 GMT)
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https://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/music/1416090/michae...

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Note added at 1 day 18 hrs (2021-03-29 13:03:08 GMT)
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so whole sentence,

She, who liked/preferred dominant men, got her wish (or what she was seeking)

As regards "ancestry" you could say so from Jackson's point of view as he adored Elvis so really craved "Presley-gene" children by Lisa Marie but I don't believe it was important to her. Seemingly she just wanted an authoritive male

Yvonne Gallagher
Ireland
Local time: 22:56
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Cyril Tollari
12 days
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