principe certain de créance

English translation: established existence of debt

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:principe certain de créance
English translation:established existence of debt
Entered by: Andrea Capuselli

02:41 Mar 14, 2020
French to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Law: Contract(s) / In an appeal of garnishment
French term or phrase: principe certain de créance
A distinction is made here between "un principe certain de créance présentant un caractère suffisant d'évidence" and a debt that is "une créance certain, liquide et exigeable". I need a phrase to characterize the first case, which is re-used many times. A previous response about this from Koen Roelens said " Actually what is meant here by "le principe", is that there is no discussion about the existance of the debt, only about the exact amount. Therefore it is well founded "in principle"...

Does simply saying "an existing debt" or maybe a "well-founded demonstration of debt" preserve the distinction between the two cases?

Thanks!
Janet Cannon
United States
Local time: 16:27
established existence of debt
Explanation:
Lots of hits on Google but I can't find any particular phrase used in English. Based on what I read, I'd go for something like this, based on my Proz reference
Selected response from:

SafeTex
France
Local time: 21:27
Grading comment
These discussions really bring out the many fine distinctions we need to be aware of. Thanks to all who weighed in. As there is disagreement I won't add it to the glossary though.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +2certainty of existence of a debt
Daryo
3established existence of debt
SafeTex


Discussion entries: 2





  

Answers


5 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
established existence of debt


Explanation:
Lots of hits on Google but I can't find any particular phrase used in English. Based on what I read, I'd go for something like this, based on my Proz reference


    https://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/law-general/772788-principe-de-cr%C3%A9ance.html
SafeTex
France
Local time: 21:27
Meets criteria
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 52
Grading comment
These discussions really bring out the many fine distinctions we need to be aware of. Thanks to all who weighed in. As there is disagreement I won't add it to the glossary though.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  AllegroTrans: there ia a particular phrase and it's not merely about the existence of a debt, but about certainty
17 hrs
  -> established = accepted, recognised, enacted !!!

neutral  Eliza Hall: Why trade "certainty" for "established"? We have a closer phrase in EN (certainty of existence).//PS: Yes we do; see Daryo's link for instance.
1 day 8 hrs
  -> Do we? I'm not so sure that we "have" a phrase for this as you say. And what is the verb or adjective based on "certain" instead of "establish/established" ? Establish is much more amenable. PS Asker chose THIS answer so why continue to edit your remark?
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1 day 3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
certainty of existence of a debt


Explanation:
principe certain de créance = il est certain qu'une créance existe en principe

■ En second lieu, s’agissant de l’action paulienne, la question des caractères que la créance doit revêtir pour autoriser le créancier à exercer l’action n’est pas clairement réglée. Il est acquis que la créance n’a pas à être certaine, exigible, ou liquide au moment de l’accomplissement de l’acte frauduleux, un principe certain de créance étant à ce stade suffisant (Com. 25 mars 1991, n° 89-12.267).

un principe certain de créance = it's enough to be sure that there is in principle an obligation to pay, even if that obligation has not yet materialised, the amount and the due date are yet to be determined.

the moment you entered in a taxi, there is "un principe certain de créance", even if the taxi driver didn't ask you to pay anything yet, and you don't know yet the amount nor when exactly it will be due.


CPLR 6202 subjects to attachment any debt against which a money judgment may be enforced as provided in CPLR 5201. CPLR 5201 (subd. [a]) provides that "any debt, which is past due or which is yet to become due, certainly or upon demand" can be the subject of execution. This business lease exhibits that certainty of existence required by the statute for a debt to be attachable. When the conditions in the lease are analyzed, it is apparent that the contingencies involved are insufficient predicates from which to conclude that future rent payments will not certainly come due.

https://www.casemine.com/judgement/us/5914c7ecadd7b049347e63...

Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:27
Meets criteria
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in SerbianSerbian, Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 112

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Eliza Hall
9 hrs
  -> Thanks!

agree  AllegroTrans
9 hrs
  -> Thanks!
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