des exceptions de la caution

English translation: legal defences in relation to the guarantee

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:des exceptions de la caution
English translation:legal defences in relation to the guarantee
Entered by: Conor McAuley

10:56 Mar 21, 2020
French to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Law: Contract(s) / Performance bond for construction work, etc.
French term or phrase: des exceptions de la caution
"Modèle de garantie de bonne exécution (garantie bancaire) [performance bond]

...
Il nous [the bank, the guarantor] sera impossible de bénéficier des exceptions de la caution."

"guarantee exceptions" is what I have pencilled in

Thanks and stay safe.
Conor McAuley
France
Local time: 08:49
(BrE/IrE) defences (AmE) pleas available under the guarantee
Explanation:
I don' think the IATE translation fits here, plus 'exceptions' as a literal translation in the ENG law of evidence are about defences raised on the footing (IrE) on foot of statutory exemptions.

I've avoided the term of surety though - both 'caution' in French and surety in English could refer to the guarantor (US: bond bailor/UK criminal bail surety) or the suretyship itself.

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Note added at 3 hrs (2020-03-21 14:12:23 GMT)
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1. Yes, I see FHS Bridge also refers to objections, though we never know what howls of Transatlantic protest of 'exceptions' will be coming when our 'objectors' wake up. I also agree with your formulation, though mine would be 'entitled to raise or enter defences *under* the guarantee / guaranty'- to wit, stated as ones available with the 'benefit' of excussio ('discussion' > the guarantor tells the creditor: sue the debtor first) or of division of the debt to make someone else jointly liable.

Otherwise, I have only ever seen 'on foot of' in Irish vs. Scottish legislation https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2020/0317/1123748-cabinet/

- and agree that copper(-)fasten is Irish English, though can recall Scottish usage of the term: https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/business/north-of-scotl... Cut to any Scottish or Scotland-based translators' input...
Selected response from:

Adrian MM.
Austria
Grading comment
"We shall not be entitled to resort to legal defences in relation to the guarantee." was what I used, many thanks to everybody.
In words words the bank promises to say, as Phil implies, "It's a fair cop lads, we'll pay up, no legal shenanigans".
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
5guarantee-related exceptions.
Youssef Chabat
4guarantee exemptions
Francois Boye
3(BrE/IrE) defences (AmE) pleas available under the guarantee
Adrian MM.
4 -1This guarantee is unconditional
philgoddard
3 -2exceptions to the guarantor
Serhan Sert


Discussion entries: 3





  

Answers


18 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -2
exceptions to the guarantor


Explanation:
I understand as "exceptions to the guarantor."

Serhan Sert
Türkiye
Local time: 10:49
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in TurkishTurkish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Tony M: I don't think this would make any sense at all, interpreting 'la caution' as the guarantor instead of the guarantee itself, and taking into account the rest of the sentence structure
1 hr

disagree  AllegroTrans: Doesn't make sense
11 hrs
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
(BrE/IrE) defences (AmE) pleas available under the guarantee


Explanation:
I don' think the IATE translation fits here, plus 'exceptions' as a literal translation in the ENG law of evidence are about defences raised on the footing (IrE) on foot of statutory exemptions.

I've avoided the term of surety though - both 'caution' in French and surety in English could refer to the guarantor (US: bond bailor/UK criminal bail surety) or the suretyship itself.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2020-03-21 14:12:23 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

1. Yes, I see FHS Bridge also refers to objections, though we never know what howls of Transatlantic protest of 'exceptions' will be coming when our 'objectors' wake up. I also agree with your formulation, though mine would be 'entitled to raise or enter defences *under* the guarantee / guaranty'- to wit, stated as ones available with the 'benefit' of excussio ('discussion' > the guarantor tells the creditor: sue the debtor first) or of division of the debt to make someone else jointly liable.

Otherwise, I have only ever seen 'on foot of' in Irish vs. Scottish legislation https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2020/0317/1123748-cabinet/

- and agree that copper(-)fasten is Irish English, though can recall Scottish usage of the term: https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/business/north-of-scotl... Cut to any Scottish or Scotland-based translators' input...

Example sentence(s):
  • IATE: LAW (12) COM fr exception de caution judicatum solvi en failure to give security

    Reference: http://www.actu-juridique.fr/civil/suretes-garanties/linoppo...
Adrian MM.
Austria
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 86
Grading comment
"We shall not be entitled to resort to legal defences in relation to the guarantee." was what I used, many thanks to everybody.
In words words the bank promises to say, as Phil implies, "It's a fair cop lads, we'll pay up, no legal shenanigans".
Notes to answerer
Asker: After consulting with my old friend Mr Bridge, I see your point about a literal translation of "exceptions". Is this bit of text just to say, "Listen lads, we won't hide behind the law, we'll just pay up"? So something like "We shall not be entitled to resort to legal defences in relation to the guarantee", or is that going a bit too plain English?

Asker: Also, do you consider on the footing/on foot of as Hiberno-English? Might as well ask you about copperfasten while I'm at it, what do you think, Irish English?

Asker: A common instinct is to prove the other person wrong, but when this is the first hit https://stancarey.wordpress.com/2017/08/14/on-foot-of-an-irish-idiom/ it's time to surrender. Great input, thanks a lot.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  philgoddard: I don't understand a lot of this, but I think you're too focused on litigation here.
1 hr
  -> Don't worry about it. The bank's waiver (?) of defences means no litigation anyway. Looking it another way round: The guarantor / bank 'expressly accepts personal, primary and directly enforceable liability': the wording used at my ex-law firm in FR & SP.

neutral  SafeTex: I don't like legalese in general but why on earth use it here to translate a very simple term in the source. I do find your entries very hard to follow in general even at the best of times
4 days
  -> I don't find the term very simple - rather ambiguous in fact, whilst the asker does seem to have cracked the idea with 'legal defences vs. exceptions in relation to the guarantee.' Otherwise, exceptions were never used in my UK ex-law firm in the context.
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
guarantee-related exceptions.


Explanation:
la caution/the guarantee is an amount of money blocked by the bank and reported on a document that the provider gives to the beneficiary. In case of nondelivery or nonconformity of the service of the provider, the beneficiary has the right to get that service from another provider and pay it from the guarantee-money of the initial provider.

no exceptions means that rules which manage this action will be applied.

Youssef Chabat
Morocco
Local time: 07:49
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in ArabicArabic
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5 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
This guarantee is unconditional


Explanation:
Meaning they won't try and weasel their way out of it, there are no strings attached.

philgoddard
United States
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 317
Notes to answerer
Asker: That's an interesting way of putting it.

Asker: To Phil and Daryo: I think Phil is right in the sense that this is the basic meaning, but this solution, in my opinion, has drifted too far into the realm of interpretation. Initially I thought it was a brilliant piece of simplification. But there are always some form of minor conditions with these things, even if they are only really formalities.

Asker: is always some form


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Daryo: this might be good as a rough/approximate explanation, but there is no way it could be a translation to be used in a legal text.
13 hrs
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5 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
guarantee exemptions


Explanation:
my take

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Note added at 8 hrs (2020-03-21 19:43:12 GMT)
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exception = Déroger à la règle Générale de la (caution).

exemption = Décision par laquelle quelqu'un est dispensé de la (caution)

Francois Boye
United States
Local time: 03:49
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 36
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