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CSE central

English translation: CSE central [Central Committee for Employee Representation]

13:45 May 9, 2020
French to English translations [PRO]
COVID-19 - Law/Patents - Law (general) / Employees' Representative Institution
French term or phrase: CSE central
Context:
"la cour d’appel de Paris a, quant à elle, clairement ordonné à la société de consulter le CSE central et les CSE d’établissement sur l’évaluation des risques professionnels liés au Covid-19 et la mise en œuvre des mesures de prévention."
Yves Barry Ben
France
Local time: 21:12
English translation:CSE central [Central Committee for Employee Representation]
Explanation:
I am not "looking" for points here and don't expect to gain any, but I do wish to "make" a point.

The translation, albeit "official", to "Social and Economic Committee" is both too literal and misleading. Whoever coined it should be ashamed. For a start, the French use of "social" in THIS context, is expressed in my Robert dictionary as "qui concerne les condition matérielles fes travailleurs et leur amélioration".

"Social" in English falls far short of conveying this meaning and suggests leisure, social clubs, holidays etc. etc.

Given that there is no exactly equivalent body in EN-spkg countries, I personally would use the French version, with an "explanatory" treanslation in square brackets rather than the so-called official translation.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Social and Economic Committee (sic) was introduced by an order dated 22 September 2017 with the purpose of simplifying dialogue between employer and employees, by (a) merging the staff representative bodies and (b) enabling the parties to set the powers of the Committee via enterprise-level agreements.

What is the Social and Economic Committee?

The Social and Economic Committee (“CSE” in French) is a staff representative body that will supersede the staff representative bodies that currently exist: staff delegates, the Works Council (WC) and the workplace health, safety and working conditions committee (“CHSCT” in French).

Its implementation will be mandatory in companies with at least eleven employees. This threshold will have to have been met over 12 consecutive months. This is a relaxation of the rules in effect, since, at present, elections must be held for staff delegates when the headcount reaches eleven employees for 12 months whether consecutive or not, over the 36 months prior to the date of the elections.

For companies whose headcount is between 11 and 20 employees, the employer shall invite the trade unions to negotiate the pre-electoral memorandum of agreement only if an employee volunteered as a candidate in the elections within 30 days after the date the staff was notified that elections would be held. Note that after the drafting of the “failure report,” a union or an employee may ask for new elections to be organised only after a period of six months.

Source:
https://www.cesynthese.com/setting-up-a-social-and-economic-...



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 22 hrs (2020-05-11 12:36:28 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The purpose of the CSE is to consolidate in a single body the attributions of three different employee representatives bodies in French companies which are (i) the staff representatives (délégués du personnel), who are elected in companies employing at least 11 employees on an habitual basis, (ii) the works council (comité d’entreprise), and (iii) the health and safety committee (comité d’hygiène, de sécurité et des conditions de travail), both elected in companies employing at least 50 employees on an habitual basis.

Source:
https://www.globalworkplaceinsider.com/2018/01/french-employ...
Selected response from:

AllegroTrans
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:12
Grading comment
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +2CSE central [Central Committee for Employee Representation]
AllegroTrans
3 +2Central Economic and Social Committee
Michael Grabczan-Grabowski
4 +1Central Social and Economic Committee
SafeTex
4 +1Central Labor-Management Committee (US)/ Central JCC (UK)
Helene_J
4Central Economic and Social Council
Yassine El Bouknify
5 -1central (or head division of the) European Economic and Social Committee
Saro Nova


Discussion entries: 10





  

Answers


17 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Central Economic and Social Council


Explanation:
Central Economic and Social Council

Yassine El Bouknify
Morocco
Local time: 20:12
Native speaker of: Native in ArabicArabic
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  philgoddard: This is correct, but you haven't given any references or explanation.
22 mins
  -> It doesn't necessarily require an explanation since it's a standard translation, but anyway, take a look at this link: https://www.un.org/en/model-united-nations/economic-and-soci...
neutral  AllegroTrans: The reference you posted in response to Phil is for a UN body that has nothing to do with worker representation in France
1 day 20 hrs
neutral  SafeTex: Hello Yassine; CSE can refer to two different entities and it is indeed the other one in this case. See discussion points please. Regards
1 day 20 hrs
neutral  Yvonne Gallagher: your link is for the UN version. This is the French version
1 day 21 hrs
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
Central Economic and Social Committee


Explanation:
I'd like to provide another option to the other valid answer by Yassine.

Here's a good Wikipedia article about this organization: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comité_social_et_économique

I see that the EU Council prefers to translate comité in this case as "committee," just by looking at the Linguee results: https://www.linguee.fr/francais-anglais/search?source=auto&q...

The precise definition of "committee" is as follows:

"noun
a person or group of persons elected or appointed to perform some service or function, as to investigate, report on, or act upon a particular matter."

However, I think "council" can work just as well.

In France, the CSE replaced the earlier comité hygiène sécurité et conditions de travail, which seems to be widely translated as the Committee on Hygiene, Safety and Working Conditions (CHSCT).

Michael Grabczan-Grabowski
Canada
Local time: 13:12
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  philgoddard: Yes, you're right, committee. And I think you should add a few words of explanation.//I mean include a few extra words in the translation explaining what the committee does. And SafeTex is right - it should strictly be "social and economic".
2 hrs
  -> Thanks, Phil! What do you think I should expand on? The difference between committees and councils? Or why the CSE acts more like a committee rather than a council? // Ah, I see AllegroTrans has already done the legwork for me in that regard. ;-)
agree  Yolanda Broad
4 hrs
  -> Merci !
neutral  Yvonne Gallagher: It doesn't really matter which word comes first here as long as you make it clear it's the French body
1 day 18 hrs
  -> That's a good point. Referring to the French body and then providing an explanation would be a good option.
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20 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Central Social and Economic Committee


Explanation:
Hello
Please see my point in the discussion and Michael's reply. it's not so much that the other translations are wrong but they are pointing to the wrong entity.
The CSE in the question is referring personnel representatives and trade unionists in a company. Nothing to do with the United Nations' Council/Committee !!!


    https://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/management/6590975-comit%C3%A9-social-et-%C3%A9conomique.html
SafeTex
France
Local time: 21:12
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 87

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Michael Grabczan-Grabowski
4 hrs
  -> thanks Michael :)
neutral  Yvonne Gallagher: It doesn't really matter which word comes first here as long as you make it clear it's the French body but AT's answer is best anyway
1 day 1 hr
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1 day 19 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): -1
central (or head division of the) European Economic and Social Committee


Explanation:
"central" is not part of the organization's title, should not have a capital letter. There are no results on the internet for "Central Economic and Social Committee", or anywhere else. Just to be precise!

Example sentence(s):
  • ... account should be taken of the recommendations made by the European Economic and Social Committee in its exploratory opinion.

    https://www.europarl.europa.eu/factsheets/en/sheet/15/the-european-economic-and-social-committee
    https://www.linguee.com/english-french/search?source=auto&query=Comit%C3%A9+social+et+%C3%A9conomique+%28CSE%29+central
Saro Nova
Canada
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 16

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  AllegroTrans: This is not a body at European level, it's a French national body
1 hr
  -> Thank you!
neutral  SafeTex: Hello Saro. On this question, it is true that if you read all the comments, you will probably understand why CSE can refer to 2 very different entities and this one is definitely the "other" one. Regards
1 hr
  -> Thank you!
neutral  Yvonne Gallagher: not the European body but the French one!
2 hrs
  -> Thank you!
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1 day 20 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
CSE central [Central Committee for Employee Representation]


Explanation:
I am not "looking" for points here and don't expect to gain any, but I do wish to "make" a point.

The translation, albeit "official", to "Social and Economic Committee" is both too literal and misleading. Whoever coined it should be ashamed. For a start, the French use of "social" in THIS context, is expressed in my Robert dictionary as "qui concerne les condition matérielles fes travailleurs et leur amélioration".

"Social" in English falls far short of conveying this meaning and suggests leisure, social clubs, holidays etc. etc.

Given that there is no exactly equivalent body in EN-spkg countries, I personally would use the French version, with an "explanatory" treanslation in square brackets rather than the so-called official translation.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Social and Economic Committee (sic) was introduced by an order dated 22 September 2017 with the purpose of simplifying dialogue between employer and employees, by (a) merging the staff representative bodies and (b) enabling the parties to set the powers of the Committee via enterprise-level agreements.

What is the Social and Economic Committee?

The Social and Economic Committee (“CSE” in French) is a staff representative body that will supersede the staff representative bodies that currently exist: staff delegates, the Works Council (WC) and the workplace health, safety and working conditions committee (“CHSCT” in French).

Its implementation will be mandatory in companies with at least eleven employees. This threshold will have to have been met over 12 consecutive months. This is a relaxation of the rules in effect, since, at present, elections must be held for staff delegates when the headcount reaches eleven employees for 12 months whether consecutive or not, over the 36 months prior to the date of the elections.

For companies whose headcount is between 11 and 20 employees, the employer shall invite the trade unions to negotiate the pre-electoral memorandum of agreement only if an employee volunteered as a candidate in the elections within 30 days after the date the staff was notified that elections would be held. Note that after the drafting of the “failure report,” a union or an employee may ask for new elections to be organised only after a period of six months.

Source:
https://www.cesynthese.com/setting-up-a-social-and-economic-...



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 22 hrs (2020-05-11 12:36:28 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The purpose of the CSE is to consolidate in a single body the attributions of three different employee representatives bodies in French companies which are (i) the staff representatives (délégués du personnel), who are elected in companies employing at least 11 employees on an habitual basis, (ii) the works council (comité d’entreprise), and (iii) the health and safety committee (comité d’hygiène, de sécurité et des conditions de travail), both elected in companies employing at least 50 employees on an habitual basis.

Source:
https://www.globalworkplaceinsider.com/2018/01/french-employ...

AllegroTrans
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:12
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 1355

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Yvonne Gallagher: absolutely! I usually leave these bodies' names in French anyway but put French in front of the English explanation [French Central Committee for Employee Representation]. That way there is no confusion as to location of body
1 hr
  -> Thanks Yvonne and yes, adding "French" avoids confusion
agree  Michael Grabczan-Grabowski: I personally like this approach myself, but some clients might object to deviating from the "norm" of the big institutions when it comes to translating such entities' names.
7 hrs
  -> Thanks!
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2 days 3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Central Labor-Management Committee (US)/ Central JCC (UK)


Explanation:
In this case I'm for using the nearest US or UK equivalent of the French since the duties and members are the same in all 3 countries.
Therefore, I'd use "labor-management committee" for a US audience and "joint consultative committee" (or the more European "works council") for a UK audience, since, like the "CSE", they are composed of employee and management representatives and also deal with occupational health and safety issues.
"Central" means group-level committee (whereas "d'établissement" means plant/unit -level committee).

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 days (2020-05-13 20:24:35 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

In response to AllegroTrans's comment, I agree that using the nearest equivalent is not always appropriate but in this instance, given the similarities in the purpose, makeup and duties of the UK, US and French committees, and since the text seems to be about covid-19 measures and not the intricacies of employee representation, I think translating "CSE" with its nearest equivalent is just as safe as translating "Conseil d'Administration" with "Board of Directors" rather than a more literal translation that might unnecessarily confuse the audience.


    https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED301679.pdf
    https://archive.acas.org.uk/media/3991/Worker-representation-in-Great-Britain-2004--2011-An-analysis-based-on-the-Workplace-Employment-Relat
Helene_J
Local time: 21:12
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 16

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Michael Grabczan-Grabowski: Interesting. Thanks, Hélène. A similar term is used in Canada: "Labour-Management Consultation Committee" (in French, comités consultatifs patronaux-syndicaux) -- see https://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/pol/doc-eng.aspx?id=12601
26 mins
neutral  AllegroTrans: Whilst these suggestions are not wrong, they are too localised to UK/US pseudo-equivalents; I think it is better to steer toward a country-neutral explanatory translation here
1 day 18 hrs
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