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rabattre

English translation: to give predominance to something over something else

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:rabattre quelque chose sur autre chose
English translation:to give predominance to something over something else
Entered by: Francis Marche

10:37 Jan 12, 2015
French to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - Philosophy
French term or phrase: rabattre
From a text about the weaving paradigm in Plato's "Statesman":


S’il y a tissage politique, c’est que le modèle d’unité de la cité qu’impose le politique est de l’ordre du tissu. Parce que chaîne et trame s’entrelacent en s’opposant et en restant différentes l’une de l’autre, parce qu’un tissu est le symbole matériel et le modèle de la résolution univoque d’une contrariété, et parce qu’un tissu, comme une cité, peuvent toujours être déliés, tisser la cité n’est pas juste l’unifier, c’est l’unifier d’une certaine façon. C’est donc tenir compte des antagonismes qui la traversent, sans les nier ou prétendre les anéantir ; c’est ramener leurs excès à la mesure sans pour autant **rabattre*** une partie sur l’autre.
tatyana000
Local time: 01:33
to give predominance to either party
Explanation:
--

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Note added at 8 hrs (2015-01-12 19:18:54 GMT)
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"rabattre quelque chose sur quelque chose d'autre" is a semi-colloquial turn of phrase which means to reduce the significance of something by assimilating it to something else of lesser rank or value, roughly equivalent to "ramener à"

The textile metaphore is irrelevant here.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs (2015-01-12 19:26:24 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Extrait de "Etude sur la République de Platon" par Monique Dixsaut : "Mais même Irwin n’est pas allé au-delà d’une analyse intrinsèque de la nature de la vertu, dont il voulait surtout montrer la complexité instrumentale : la notion même d’une instrumentalisation de la vertu, qui est le thème principal de son livre majeur, a pour effet de dépolitiser entièrement la vertu platonicienne ***et de la rabattre sur un thème socratique***."

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs (2015-01-12 19:27:29 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Read "to give predominance to either side" in my proposed translation.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2015-01-12 19:38:39 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"L'expression «trophê kai paideia», très fréquente dans le texte platonicien ne peut se laisser ***rabattre sur*** l'opposition entre développement physique et formation intellectuelle" from Les traits de l'être: essai sur l'ontologie platonicienne by Danielle Montet

(about Husserl’s Logical Investigations) : Une innovation capitale de la sixième Recherche a été de préserver l’opposition de l’intuition et de la simple signification, sans céder à la tentation – « psychologiste » ou « platoniste » -- de **la rabattre sur** celle du sensible et du catégorial, du réal et de l’idéal. From Objet et signification: matériaux phénoménologiques pour la théorie du jugement By Denis Seron

« Mais désarmer les métis revient justement à ***les rabattre sur*** leur identité indienne et subalterne, à les priver de leur héritage paternel ». From « Un Inca platonicien : Garcilaso de la Vega 1539-1616
Selected response from:

Francis Marche
France
Local time: 01:33
Grading comment
Thanks you!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +1preferring
Terry Richards
3 +1imposing
Philippa Smith
4reducing one part to another/reducing any two parts to each other
Francois Boye
4to give predominance to either party
Francis Marche
3literally : without folding one part back on top of the other
polyglot45
3 -1interweaving
Colin Morley (X)
3 -1overlap
Jocelyne Cuenin


  

Answers


5 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
preferring


Explanation:
It's actually the opposite of preferring but, as there are only two parties, it doesn't matter here.


Terry Richards
France
Local time: 01:33
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Daryo
12 hrs
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41 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
imposing


Explanation:
Another possible solution.

In line with the weaving analogy, I'm seeing it as different elements being woven together harmoniously rather than one being imposed on another...

Philippa Smith
Local time: 01:33
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 8

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Daryo
12 hrs
  -> Thanks Daryo!
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
literally : without folding one part back on top of the other


Explanation:
since all this is an image, when you "rabattre" fabric, it means folding back one part on top of the other. You can adjust it to the right size but without overlap.
Your choice of words will depend on whether you are keeping the image to the end or not

polyglot45
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in FrenchFrench
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5 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -1
interweaving


Explanation:
Keeping in the analogy of the warp and weft of material.

Colin Morley (X)
France
Local time: 01:33
Native speaker of: English

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  MatthewLaSon: You're on the right track, I'd say. The idea, in my mind, is there isn't to be any fusion, any interpersing, etc. We then have complete and distinct entities.
1 hr
disagree  Francis Marche: You're on the wrong track I'm afraid. The analogy is irrelevant, absent from the phrase "rabattre sur".
3 hrs
disagree  Daryo: in that part of the ST that analogy is not directly relevant
7 hrs
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
reducing one part to another/reducing any two parts to each other


Explanation:
rabattre=reduce, dimninish, fold

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs (2015-01-12 19:16:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Erratum: diminish instead of dimninish

Francois Boye
United States
Local time: 19:33
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
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23 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
to give predominance to either party


Explanation:
--

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs (2015-01-12 19:18:54 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"rabattre quelque chose sur quelque chose d'autre" is a semi-colloquial turn of phrase which means to reduce the significance of something by assimilating it to something else of lesser rank or value, roughly equivalent to "ramener à"

The textile metaphore is irrelevant here.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs (2015-01-12 19:26:24 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Extrait de "Etude sur la République de Platon" par Monique Dixsaut : "Mais même Irwin n’est pas allé au-delà d’une analyse intrinsèque de la nature de la vertu, dont il voulait surtout montrer la complexité instrumentale : la notion même d’une instrumentalisation de la vertu, qui est le thème principal de son livre majeur, a pour effet de dépolitiser entièrement la vertu platonicienne ***et de la rabattre sur un thème socratique***."

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs (2015-01-12 19:27:29 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Read "to give predominance to either side" in my proposed translation.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2015-01-12 19:38:39 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"L'expression «trophê kai paideia», très fréquente dans le texte platonicien ne peut se laisser ***rabattre sur*** l'opposition entre développement physique et formation intellectuelle" from Les traits de l'être: essai sur l'ontologie platonicienne by Danielle Montet

(about Husserl’s Logical Investigations) : Une innovation capitale de la sixième Recherche a été de préserver l’opposition de l’intuition et de la simple signification, sans céder à la tentation – « psychologiste » ou « platoniste » -- de **la rabattre sur** celle du sensible et du catégorial, du réal et de l’idéal. From Objet et signification: matériaux phénoménologiques pour la théorie du jugement By Denis Seron

« Mais désarmer les métis revient justement à ***les rabattre sur*** leur identité indienne et subalterne, à les priver de leur héritage paternel ». From « Un Inca platonicien : Garcilaso de la Vega 1539-1616


Francis Marche
France
Local time: 01:33
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 32
Grading comment
Thanks you!
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1 day 3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -1
overlap


Explanation:
Comme dans overlapping seams / coutures rabattues pour rester dans le domaine du textile.
OK couture rabattue = flat felled seam, mais "A flat felled seam is basically an overlapping seam that’s sewn flat".

1. (of two things) to extend or lie partly over (each other)
thefreedictionary

rabattre une couture, mais aussi "Ramener, appliquer une chose sur l'autre (par pliage). Synon. replier.Rabattre un col; rabattre une feuille sur une autre; rabattre les parties d'un dépliant." cnrtl


Example sentence(s):
  • ...take two fabric squares and overlap one over the other by 1” or 2”.
  • Fold the other side over so it overlaps the first side.
Jocelyne Cuenin
Germany
Local time: 01:33
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Francis Marche: The textile/fabric metaphore plays no part whatsoever in the use/choice of the term "rabattre sur", which is widely used in philosophy, sociology narratives where such metaphore is absent. And "overlap" is "chevaucher" or "recouvrir", not "rabattre sur".
2 days 6 hrs
  -> Permettez-moi, malgré tout, de rester sur mon idée de métaphore : tissage, tissu mentionné plusieurs fois, chaîne et trame, entrelacent, déliés, tisser - et rabattre une partie sur l'autre. Autrement, voir défs.//Voir aussi polyglot.
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