en prise avec elle-même

English translation: in touch with itself/engaging with itself

12:47 Feb 18, 2015
French to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - Philosophy
French term or phrase: en prise avec elle-même
From a text on Plato's dialogues:

L’aspect hautement dramatique de ces dialogues tient alors à l’effort constant que Socrate déploie pour se faire entendre. Rien de tel dans le Sophiste et le Politique où ce qui rythme le drame n’est rien d’autre que la pensée *** en prise avec elle-même***, interrogeant le bien fondé de ses présupposés, doutant parfois que les chemins qu’elle emprunte mènent quelque part.
tatyana000
Local time: 02:16
English translation:in touch with itself/engaging with itself
Explanation:
Just another suggestion.
Selected response from:

Ruth C (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 01:16
Grading comment
Thank you!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4as it grapples with itself
Lisa Jane
4as a self-cent(e)red/self-deconstructing discourse
Francois Boye
3 +1at grips with itself
katsy
3 +1in touch with itself/engaging with itself
Ruth C (X)
4 -1as it struggles with itself/as it challenges itself
Veronica Sardon
3autocritique or self-criticism
Deirdre Brophy (X)
3firming up its hold (on what it had already mastered)
Francis Marche
3examining itself
Melissa McMahon
3involved with itself
YorickJenkins
Summary of reference entries provided
as it has a firm grip on/connecting with - itself
Gregory Lassale

Discussion entries: 4





  

Answers


4 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
as it struggles with itself/as it challenges itself


Explanation:
I believe that is what it amounts to: thought as it struggles with itself, or in a struggle with itself, or as it challenges itself. Something along those lines.

Veronica Sardon
Argentina
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in SpanishSpanish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Francis Marche: You confuse "être EN prise avec" et "être AUX prises avec"
1 hr
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17 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
autocritique or self-criticism


Explanation:
Something like "self-criticism is the order of the day... interrogeant le bien fondé de ses présupposés, doutant parfois que les chemins qu’elle emprunte mènent quelque part"


    Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-criticism
    Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_Forms#Self-criticism
Deirdre Brophy (X)
France
Native speaker of: English
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26 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
as it grapples with itself


Explanation:
I prefer this to struggle which could be too harsh

Lisa Jane
Italy
Local time: 02:16
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in ItalianItalian
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  kashew: Grappling my first reaction too. ;-)
30 mins
  -> Thanks Kashew;)

disagree  Francis Marche: This is "être AUX prises avec", whilst the ST is "EN prise avec". Please check the difference in a dictionary.
1 hr
  -> ok-thanks but I still think this it what the author was trying to say in the philosophical context
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
firming up its hold (on what it had already mastered)


Explanation:

or "securing a firmer hold on the subject/topic", etc.

As in here, about Saint Paul:
It is evident from his Epistles that his religious thought was constantly extending its control from one region of truth to another, as well as constantly securing a firmer hold of the truth which he had already mastered; and with the growth of his religious knowledge there was a corresponding growth of his religious life.

http://biblehub.com/sermons/auth/dale/every_spiritual_blessi...





Francis Marche
France
Local time: 02:16
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 32
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
as a self-cent(e)red/self-deconstructing discourse


Explanation:
My interpretation

Francois Boye
United States
Local time: 21:16
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
at grips with itself


Explanation:
I tend to agree with Veronica, about a possible confusion of the two meanings - another translation I have found for "en prise avec" is "attuned to"... but that doesn't seem helpful in the context.
However, "to come to grips with" "to get to grips with" is defined
http://dictionary.reverso.net/english-definition/at grips wi...
as "to deal with a problem or subject".
So maybe this might do?

katsy
Local time: 02:16
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 3

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Yvonne Gallagher
15 mins
  -> Thanks Gallagy :-)
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9 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
examining itself


Explanation:
The author is *contrasting* the drama, effort etc. of the other dialogues with the Sophist and the Statesman, where there is "rien de tel" and *instead* there is this process of thought "en prise avec elle-même - Francis is right about the confusion with "aux prises avec".

The expression is glossed by the author as "interrogating whether its presuppositions are well founded, sometimes doubting whether the paths it takes lead anywhere" - this is the classic Socratic/Platonic dialogical process of thought examining itself, teasing out its consequences, seeing whether it leads to contradictions.

"Examining itself" doesn't have the nice concrete image of being in contact or in touch with itself, but "thought in touch with itself" is too touchy-feely to describe the rigorous process of the dialogues.

My suggestion has in mind the understanding of "en prise avec" as "having one's finger on the pulse of", ie like a medical examination. If it is too abstract, lacking the concrete image of "prise", I'd suggest "taking its own measure".



Melissa McMahon
Australia
Local time: 12:16
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 86
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9 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
in touch with itself/engaging with itself


Explanation:
Just another suggestion.

Ruth C (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 01:16
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Thank you!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Melissa McMahon: I don't like "in touch with itself" (see my own answer) but I think engaging with itself is a very good option.
3 mins
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1 day 4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
involved with itself


Explanation:
This is a middle way between suggestions going in the direction of struggling and grappling and those going in the direction of control. In philosophy I should have though the expression "en prise avec" expressed neither, it denotes interraction, especially as the writer has pointed to the fact that there is nothing highly dramatic taking place here, but on the contrary, la pensée "en prise avec elle même" being involved with itself sounds to be a suitably undramatic tone for The Statesman and The Sophist dialogues.

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Note added at 1 Tag4 Stunden (2015-02-19 17:24:09 GMT)
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I should have added "internal" to "interaction" meaning non dramatic interaction. In the dialogues the philosopher is interacting with himself.

YorickJenkins
Local time: 02:16
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
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Reference comments


1 hr
Reference: as it has a firm grip on/connecting with - itself

Reference information:
Agreed with Francis - people confuse "être en prise avec" with "être aux prises avec".

Gregory Lassale
United States
Native speaker of: French

Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
neutral  katsy: this should be in the answer section, non? :-)
2 hrs
  -> That's where I meant to put it. Not sure what I did wrong...
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