ramené

English translation: which comes out / down to

11:43 May 21, 2020
French to English translations [PRO]
Bus/Financial - Real Estate
French term or phrase: ramené
Property valuation, flat in upmarket area of Paris.

"EVALUATION.

CONCLUSION.

Compte tenu d'une part, des caractéristiques, de la localisation du bien étudié, et d'autre part, du marché immobilier considéré et des références relevées, la méthode d'évaluation par "comparaison directe" nous conduit à proposer, une valeur comprise entre :

I) Appartement avec le stationnement
1.444.444 Euros et 1.888.888 Euros.
(Fourchette de prix actualisée et ramenée entre 12.888 € et 13.111 € le m2)"

What (on Earth) might they mean by "ramené" here?

Bearing in mind that estate agents/valuers choose their words very carefully at this point in their valuations. So I think the concept of "reduced" is unlikely to be meant: sounds too negative, might frighten the seller, etc. And also doesn't seem to fit the context.
Mpoma
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:23
English translation:which comes out / down to
Explanation:
It's just not a way we'd express this idea in EN, but that's essentially what it means in this and so many other contexts — think of the basic notion of 'brought to...'
Of course, you'll need to completely re-formulate it in EN, to make it sound natural!

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Note added at 12 days (2020-06-03 10:05:36 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

It's not surprising, they are led astray by this faux ami of 'reduce' — which is after all the ultimate sense of 'boils down to', which is the sense here — and it very often found in technical, mathematical contexts where we would less often expect to find 'reduce' in EN — one example might be in the simplification of equations.
Selected response from:

Tony M
France
Local time: 07:23
Grading comment
Still in some doubt about this, due to our Francophone colleagues' convictions.
3 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +2amounting/equating to (betwen)
AllegroTrans
4 +2corresponding to
SafeTex
3 +1narrowed down to
ph-b (X)
4which comes out / down to
Tony M
3 -2reduced
Lisa Rosengard


Discussion entries: 20





  

Answers


1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
ramené (entre)
amounting/equating to (betwen)


Explanation:
Tony has the right idea, but mayble this expresses it more naturally

Search Results
Web results

Home prices drop 14.2 pct in September | Macau Business
www.macaubusiness.com › home-prices-drop-14-2-pct-in...
1 Nov 2015 - The Peninsula is the cheapest area in the territory to acquire a home, with the average price per square metre amounting to MOP80,993.

pv international by Zoran Vodopija - issuu
issuu.com › vinskaprica.com › docs › pvi-124
4 Oct 2010 - Zadar, on the other hand, recorded an increase by 0.2%, or € 3, the price per square metre amounting to €1,645. In Pula, real estate prices ...

AllegroTrans
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:23
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 247
1 corroborated select project
in this pair and field What is ProZ.com Project History(SM)?
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks, yes, very much the idea, I think. Ormiston's "boils down to" fits will with the def. in Trésor de la langue française, see discussion.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  ormiston: With the underlying idea of 'boiling down to'
13 mins
  -> thanks

agree  Paulina Sobelman
50 mins
  -> Yes of course, my typo, thanks

agree  Tony M: Yes, that's the way to express it properly — I was only seeking to convey the underlying idea.
1 hr
  -> thanks

disagree  Francois Boye: ramené (entre) =narrowed down
5 hrs
  -> I don't see anyhting being "narrowed down" here - just what the resulting price per m2 amounts to
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
corresponding to


Explanation:
Hello
I don't like "amounting to" as there is no cumulation of sums while it is much harder to make a call between "equating to and my suggestion. But I have a feeling English speakers would normally use "corresponding to".

SafeTex
France
Local time: 07:23
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 34

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  AllegroTrans: OK but there doesn't need to be a cumulation/calculation to use "amounting to" - the word just is effectively saying "the amount is X" - please see the 2 examples within my answer box
8 hrs
  -> thanks and noted

agree  GILOU
3 days 15 hrs
  -> Thanks Gilou
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5 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
ramenée
narrowed down to


Explanation:

The valuation has been reassessed (actualisée) for whatever reason, which led to the range of the estimate being narrowed down to between 12,888 € and 13,111 €.

ramener à : 3. Réduire à un état élémentaire ou plus simple ; diminuer... Ramener l’escompte de dix à huit pour cent.
https://www.dictionnaire-academie.fr/article/A9R0389>

The verb "reduce" may not sound right for a range (band?) of prices, but "narrow down" could work to reflect the fact that because of the reassessment, the valuer has been able to make a more precise estimate, not to "reduce" as such, but to "narrow down" the scope of the range of prices.

I've no idea if an estate agent would use this term, but this to me is the scenario described by the French phrase Fourchette de prix actualisée et ramenée entre 12.888 € et 13.111 € le m2

Some examples in the context of valuations:

A Practical Guide to Business Valuations for SMEsbooks.google.fr › books- Traduire cette page
The value range obtained from the initial calculations can be narrowed down. The value range identified can be further analysed to calculate a spot figure.


Value Investing in Asia: The Definitive Guide to Investing ...books.google.fr › books- Traduire cette page
... a valuation exercise, we believe that at best valuation can be narrowed down to ... control the risk of investing by having a safety gap between the market price ...

books.google.fr › books- Traduire cette page
Theoretical overview - The most important valuation models - What models to use? ... to point out that 'value' varies from being a range to a very specific number. ... however, the valuation had been narrowed down to exactly $31 per share or ...
David Frykman, ‎Jakob Tolleryd - 2012 - ‎Business & Economics
Peir Shenq (Stanley) Lim, ‎Mun Hong Cheong - 2017 - ‎Business & Economics

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Note added at 6 hrs (2020-05-21 17:43:38 GMT)
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Read: "the French sentence"

ph-b (X)
France
Local time: 07:23
Native speaker of: French
Notes to answerer
Asker: I've just seen this answer ... and I find it more convincing than your example from a court case in the discussion thread (where the price is "ramené"/"reduced"). Interesting too that both you and François Boye, as native French speakers, share this interpretation.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Francois Boye
1 hr

neutral  AllegroTrans: I don't see anything being "narrowed down"
3 days 6 hrs
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8 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -2
reduced


Explanation:
In this sense among prices, 'ramener à' means 'to reduce to'. The quote from the example above states 'rameneé entre', referring to 'la fourchette', which is the price range.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 46 mins (2020-05-22 12:30:21 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

May I suggest that 'ramené' could mean 'narrowed down to' or 'reduced', perhaps even 'brought back'. When considering the context above, one can see that 'ramenée' (feminine singular past participle of the verb 'ramener' (to bring back) is used to describe 'la fourchette' which is 'the range' (of prices).

Example sentence(s):
  • La fourchette de prix est actualisée et ramenée entre ...euros et ....euros le metre carré.
  • The price range is updated (reviewed) and reduced to be between .... euros and ...euros per squared metre.
Lisa Rosengard
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:23
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Tony M: Although 'ramener' can have a sense of 'reduce' in some contexts, that wouldn't really make any sense here. No, because where figures are involved, using 'reduced' suggests a discount, reduced price etc. 'comes down/out / amounts to' are the right sense
22 mins
  -> If it means 'which comes down to' as you suggested, that would mean the same as 'reduced'. If it means 'which comes out' that's not exactly the same.

disagree  AllegroTrans: I see nothing about reduction in the source text
3 days 3 hrs
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23 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
which comes out / down to


Explanation:
It's just not a way we'd express this idea in EN, but that's essentially what it means in this and so many other contexts — think of the basic notion of 'brought to...'
Of course, you'll need to completely re-formulate it in EN, to make it sound natural!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 days (2020-06-03 10:05:36 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

It's not surprising, they are led astray by this faux ami of 'reduce' — which is after all the ultimate sense of 'boils down to', which is the sense here — and it very often found in technical, mathematical contexts where we would less often expect to find 'reduce' in EN — one example might be in the simplification of equations.


Tony M
France
Local time: 07:23
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 365
Grading comment
Still in some doubt about this, due to our Francophone colleagues' convictions.
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks. This makes sense.

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