lieu doublement sacré

English translation: twice sacred site

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:lieu doublement sacré
English translation:twice sacred site
Entered by: Lara Barnett

09:40 Apr 8, 2013
French to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Religion / Article on Jerusalem
French term or phrase: lieu doublement sacré
The context here reads:

"...le Mur occidental est aussi le soutenement del Grande Mosquée El-Aqsa avec le Dôme du Rocher, lieu doublement sacré."

I can't think of the best way to express this phrase. "Highly sacred" would lose the idea of "double", while "doubly sacred" would be wrong in the context as this is an article from a luxurious magazine. Is there a more sophisticated way of translating this while still keeping the idea of "double"? Or would it not be possible?
Lara Barnett
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:18
twice sacred site
Explanation:
see link
Selected response from:

Paul Hirsh
France
Local time: 14:18
Grading comment
Thank you.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +5twice sacred site
Paul Hirsh
4 +4doubly sacred site
kashew
5 +2a site sacred to two religious traditions
Christopher Crockett
3 +3place which is doubly sacred
SafeTex
3 +2a place which is sacred for two reasons
Jane F
3 +2, a place that is holy twice over.
Fabio Barbieri
Summary of reference entries provided
also here
writeaway

  

Answers


3 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +3
place which is doubly sacred


Explanation:
Fits the idea and is about as understandable as the original text so why not?


    Reference: http://www.fatimacrusader.com/cr15/cr15pg25.asp
SafeTex
France
Local time: 14:18
Meets criteria
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  DLyons
3 mins

agree  Paul Hirsh: don't see why doubly sacred should be incompatible with a luxury mag?
52 mins

agree  philgoddard
6 hrs
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5 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +4
doubly sacred site


Explanation:
*

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 minutes (2013-04-08 09:46:04 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

sacred or holy

kashew
France
Local time: 14:18
Meets criteria
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  DLyons
1 min
  -> Thanks

agree  Victoria Britten: I don't see the problem with "doubly" either
11 mins
  -> Thanks

agree  Josephine Cassar: Agree, doubly Should definitely be used here
51 mins
  -> Thanks

agree  GILOU
6 hrs
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39 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
a place which is sacred for two reasons


Explanation:

"For Muslims, Jerusalem is thought to be sacred for two reasons: First, Muslims were initially commanded to pray toward Jerusalem. But when the Jews refused to convert to Islam, Muhammad changed the prayer direction toward Mecca. Second, Muslims believe that Muhammad ascended to heaven and back from "the Rock" which much later after his death was interpreted to mean what is today the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem."
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/1609/jerusalem-sacred-for-...




Jane F
France
Local time: 14:18
Meets criteria
Native speaker of: English

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  David Hayes: I think this is better. The French gives two reasons why the place is sacred. 'Doubly sacred' suggests to me a quantitative aspect that focuses on the degree of sacredness rather than two different reasons stemming from two different religious traditions.
13 mins
  -> thank you David

agree  DGawarecki (X): Le Nouveau Petit Robert gives "des deux manieres" (in two ways or for two reasons) as a preferred definition for "doublement." Clearly, given the context, this is the most accurate translation.
1 hr
  -> thank you DGawarecki
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58 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +5
twice sacred site


Explanation:
see link


    Reference: http://www.tripadvisor.fr/ShowUserReviews-g293974-d294497-r1...
Paul Hirsh
France
Local time: 14:18
Meets criteria
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Thank you.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  B D Finch: This seems to best fit the register.
10 mins
  -> thanks!

agree  Ada Jones
25 mins
  -> thanks!

agree  Helen Shiner: Lovely solution with a bit of poetry about it. Have also come upon thrice sacred, fwiw.
48 mins
  -> thanks! Thrice is a favourite with poets :) "Thrice noble Titus"" and Martin Luther's "Hail, sacred Rome! thrice sacred for the blood of the martyrs here shed."

agree  Yvonne Gallagher
2 hrs
  -> thanks!

agree  Yolanda Broad: This is the right register.
9 hrs
  -> thanks!
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
, a place that is holy twice over.


Explanation:
"Doubly" and the like do not sound as well in English as "lieu doublement sacre'" does in French. "Twice over" is more native and more emphatic.

Fabio Barbieri
Italy
Local time: 14:18
Meets criteria
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in ItalianItalian

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  rkillings: Or just "twice holy place". See Google Books, Charles McFarlane, Turkey and its destiny: the result of journeys made in 1847 and ..., Volume 2 :-)
7 hrs

agree  Sheila Wilson: I prefer this to "twice holy" - time moves on and the language changes
7 hrs
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +2
a site sacred to two religious traditions


Explanation:
However, since this is from "a luxurious magazine," and thus presumably written for a well-heeled audience rather than an Academic one, why not expand a bit to make sure your readers understand exactly what your mean:

The western wall of the ancient Temple Mount of Solomon also supports the great El-Aqsa mosque, with its Dome of the Rock, and is thus a site which is sacred to two major religious traditions.

Christopher Crockett
Local time: 09:18
Meets criteria
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 12

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  David Hayes: This could work too, IMO, but you'd have to pad out what follows too. Maybe too many extra words would have to be introduced? Was thinking about style rather than price of electrons! Easy to say exactly what you mean in 20 words rather than 10 (say).
8 mins
  -> Thanks, David. Well, how much "padding out" would need to be done is yet to be seen --best to work on one sentence at a time. The idea of "extra" words is a curious one. Electrons are cheap (for now), so if this happens to be for on-line publication...

agree  Yvonne Gallagher
1 hr
  -> Thanks, Gal.

neutral  Josephine Cassar: due to 2 religious traditions, at least, but do not like it much, sorry
5 hrs
  -> Well, I don't care for either one of them myself, Josephine but, in this case I believe that Reality wins. (Say, our text says "doublement." The site isn't sacred to a 3rd --or 4th-- religion, is it?)
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Reference comments


16 mins peer agreement (net): +1
Reference: also here

Reference information:
Irez-vous vous recueillir vous aussi devant le Kotel, le mur des Lamentations, vestige du Temple de Jérusalem, construit il y a plus de 2000 ans ? Symbole national israélien, le Mur occidental est aussi le soutènement de la Grande Mosquée El-Aqsa avec le Dôme du Rocher -, lieu doublement sacré. C’est là qu’Abraham s’apprêtait à sacrifier son fils Isaac et que Mahomet est monté au ciel.
http://blogs.cotemaison.fr/chronique-de-voltaire/

writeaway
Meets criteria
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
agree  Helen Shiner: The point being that it is sacred for more than one religious tradition, so 'highly' would miss the point./Quite so.
1 hr
  -> also felt that seeing the full context would help clarify things a bit
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