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artgemäß kunstgemäß

English translation: true to type/proper/characteristic/typological / art appropriate/artistic [critique]

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
German term or phrase:artgemäß / kunstgemäß
English translation:true to type/proper/characteristic/typological / art appropriate/artistic [critique]
Entered by: Helen Shiner

15:02 Aug 15, 2008
German to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Art, Arts & Crafts, Painting
German term or phrase: artgemäß kunstgemäß
would it just be art-related? thanks for any input...

Die Salzburger Nachrichten veröffentlichten unter dem Titel „Versuch einer artgemäßen [!] Kritik“ einen begeisterten Beitrag zu Thorak, dessen „Marmorriesen“ der Verfasser als „die feinsten, glättesten, die schönsten – gefälligsten Abbilder der Natur“ lobte. Die Verstrickungen Thoraks in das NS-System wurden mit keinem Wort erwähnt. Derselbe Autor lieferte drei Wochen später einen „Versuch einer kunstgemäßen Kritik“ über Fritz Wotruba nach und wollte Missverständnissen, die sein Thorak-Artikel ausgelöst hatte, entgegentreten.

What I've got so far:
The Salzburger Nachrichten published an enthusiastic article on Thorak under the title “Attempt at an artgemäß [!] criticism”, in which the author praised his “marble giants” as “the finest, smoothest, the most beautiful – most agreeable images of nature”. There was not only single mention of Thorak’s entanglements in the National Socialist system. The same author three weeks later provided an “attempt at a kunstgemäße criticism” of Fritz Wotruba and wanted to counter the misunderstandings that his Thorak article had elicited.
davidgreen
true to type/proper/characteristic and art appropriate
Explanation:
These are not given as good translations as such - I have to dash out - but give the essential differences in the meanings of the terms. The first does have a Nazi undertone - eugenics and all that - which may well be why they got into trouble, though I'm not sure of the dates of these articles, which might affect an interpretation. Sorry everything has to be so complex!!

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Note added at 1 hr (2008-08-15 16:35:56 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Skating over the past history of Thorak, Hitler's favourite sculptor in the early 1950s, and praising his work with a title with such a double-entendre, was never going to go down well generally.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2008-08-15 16:45:19 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Here's another Nazi using the same term - artgemäß:
Hans Beck: Artur Dinters Geistchristentum. Der Versuch einer »artgemäßen Umgestaltung« des Wortes Gottes.

Found in this list: http://www.bautz.de/bbkl/d/dinter_a.shtml
Herausgeber: Das Geistchristentum. Monatsschrift zur Vollendung der Reformation durch Wiederherstellung der reinen Heilandslehre 1 (1928) bis 6 (1933) (in den Jahren 1934 bis 1936 fortgesetzt unter dem Titel »Die Deutsche Volkskirche«); Die religiöse Revolution. Kampfblatt der deutschen Volkskirche e.V., 1 (1934) - 4 (1937).
Lit.: Friedrich Andersen: Deutschchristentum auf rein evangelischer Grundlage. 95 Leitsätze zum Reformationsfest 1917, Leipzig 1917; - Paul Weyland: Die Sünde wider den gesunden Menschenverstand. Eine Auseinandersetzung mit Artur Dinter, Berlin 1921; - Julius Kaufmann: Artur Dinter. Eine Lebensbeschreibung zu seinem Geburtstage am 27. Brachmond (Juni) 1928; in: Das Geistchristentum 1 (1928), 238-242; - Ernst Bublitz: Der Weg zur deutschen Kirche. Nebst einer Erwiderung auf die Angriffe gegen die Deutschkirche, Berlin o.J. [1931]; - , Berlin-Steglitz 1935; - Manfred Boge: Volk ringt um Gott. Deutschvölkisches Glaubensringen. Von der Deutschkirche bis zum Tannenbergbund, Breslau 1935; - Der Deutsche Heiland. Zeugnisse und Gedanken der »Deutschkirche«. Bearbeitet von Hannsgeorg Schroth. Herausgegeben von der Apologetischen Centrale Berlin (Stoffsammlung für Schulungsarbeit. Nr. 49), Berlin 1936; - H. Ahrens: Wir klagen an den ehemaligen Parteigenossen Nr. 5 Artur Dinter, Gauleiter der NSDAP in Thüringen, in: Aufbau 3 (1947), 288-290; - Hans Buchheim: Glaubenskrise im Dritten Reich. Drei Kapitel nationalsozialistischer Religionspolitik (Veröffentlichungen des Intistuts für Zeitgeschichte München), Stuttgart 1953; - Kurt Meier: Die Deutschen Christen. Das Bild einer Bewegung im Kirchenkampf des Dritten Reiches, Halle an der Saale / Göttingen 1964; - Heinrich Falb: Artur Dinter als Politiker und Ideologe. Ein Beitrag zur Geschichte und Weltanschauung der nationalsozialistischen Bewegung (Typoskript), Freiburg im Breisgau 1967; -


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2008-08-15 16:52:21 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

How about: 'Towards a typological critique' for one in order to keep something of the eugenic double-entendre in there and 'Towards an artistic critique' for Wotruba? I.e. he is shifting the ground from judging Thorak's work on racial grounds to thinking in purely artistic terms about Wotruba - or at least wishing to demonstrate that he is doing so?

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day23 hrs (2008-08-17 14:27:47 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Thanks for the points, David. Really interesting stuff you're translating there!
Selected response from:

Helen Shiner
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:48
Grading comment
great suggestions, I went with typological critique/artistic critique and will then leave the ability to "really" understand the play on words to the art critics who speak both German and English reading the texts!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +3true to type/proper/characteristic and art appropriate
Helen Shiner
3 +1rephrase
Stephen Reader


  

Answers


26 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
rephrase


Explanation:
Ugh, NS-overtones evidently read into "artgemäß" with ref. to Thorak's history? Art as in species ("race"?!) but "artgemäß" at face level 'd read "appropriate" (to the category/matter/the work at hand). Even so, odd, recalls "artgerechte Tierhaltung" etc. "Kunstgemäß": probably "in a way that takes account of the artistic nature of... " or some such, would work; & probably after retaining the Ger. terms as you have.

Stephen Reader
Local time: 22:48
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 115

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Helen Shiner: some sort of rephrasing is definitely necessary./In order to keep the 'type' in there for artgemäß, what do you think about: 'Towards a typological critique' - heavy and ugly, but so is the German?/With 'Towards an artistic critique' for the other?
1 hr
  -> Good-oh (thanks, Helen)
neutral  Ken Cox: I wonder how many levels of pun you should understand here -- Austrian newspaper art critics and their readers would surely recognise the NS overtones of 'artgemäß' *and* the bilngual pun 'art/Kunst'
1 hr
  -> Yes, they probably would; but Eng. readers less likely to, so retaining the Ger. phrases & adding Helen's sugg. above, should work
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23 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +3
true to type/proper/characteristic and art appropriate


Explanation:
These are not given as good translations as such - I have to dash out - but give the essential differences in the meanings of the terms. The first does have a Nazi undertone - eugenics and all that - which may well be why they got into trouble, though I'm not sure of the dates of these articles, which might affect an interpretation. Sorry everything has to be so complex!!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2008-08-15 16:35:56 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Skating over the past history of Thorak, Hitler's favourite sculptor in the early 1950s, and praising his work with a title with such a double-entendre, was never going to go down well generally.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2008-08-15 16:45:19 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Here's another Nazi using the same term - artgemäß:
Hans Beck: Artur Dinters Geistchristentum. Der Versuch einer »artgemäßen Umgestaltung« des Wortes Gottes.

Found in this list: http://www.bautz.de/bbkl/d/dinter_a.shtml
Herausgeber: Das Geistchristentum. Monatsschrift zur Vollendung der Reformation durch Wiederherstellung der reinen Heilandslehre 1 (1928) bis 6 (1933) (in den Jahren 1934 bis 1936 fortgesetzt unter dem Titel »Die Deutsche Volkskirche«); Die religiöse Revolution. Kampfblatt der deutschen Volkskirche e.V., 1 (1934) - 4 (1937).
Lit.: Friedrich Andersen: Deutschchristentum auf rein evangelischer Grundlage. 95 Leitsätze zum Reformationsfest 1917, Leipzig 1917; - Paul Weyland: Die Sünde wider den gesunden Menschenverstand. Eine Auseinandersetzung mit Artur Dinter, Berlin 1921; - Julius Kaufmann: Artur Dinter. Eine Lebensbeschreibung zu seinem Geburtstage am 27. Brachmond (Juni) 1928; in: Das Geistchristentum 1 (1928), 238-242; - Ernst Bublitz: Der Weg zur deutschen Kirche. Nebst einer Erwiderung auf die Angriffe gegen die Deutschkirche, Berlin o.J. [1931]; - , Berlin-Steglitz 1935; - Manfred Boge: Volk ringt um Gott. Deutschvölkisches Glaubensringen. Von der Deutschkirche bis zum Tannenbergbund, Breslau 1935; - Der Deutsche Heiland. Zeugnisse und Gedanken der »Deutschkirche«. Bearbeitet von Hannsgeorg Schroth. Herausgegeben von der Apologetischen Centrale Berlin (Stoffsammlung für Schulungsarbeit. Nr. 49), Berlin 1936; - H. Ahrens: Wir klagen an den ehemaligen Parteigenossen Nr. 5 Artur Dinter, Gauleiter der NSDAP in Thüringen, in: Aufbau 3 (1947), 288-290; - Hans Buchheim: Glaubenskrise im Dritten Reich. Drei Kapitel nationalsozialistischer Religionspolitik (Veröffentlichungen des Intistuts für Zeitgeschichte München), Stuttgart 1953; - Kurt Meier: Die Deutschen Christen. Das Bild einer Bewegung im Kirchenkampf des Dritten Reiches, Halle an der Saale / Göttingen 1964; - Heinrich Falb: Artur Dinter als Politiker und Ideologe. Ein Beitrag zur Geschichte und Weltanschauung der nationalsozialistischen Bewegung (Typoskript), Freiburg im Breisgau 1967; -


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2008-08-15 16:52:21 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

How about: 'Towards a typological critique' for one in order to keep something of the eugenic double-entendre in there and 'Towards an artistic critique' for Wotruba? I.e. he is shifting the ground from judging Thorak's work on racial grounds to thinking in purely artistic terms about Wotruba - or at least wishing to demonstrate that he is doing so?

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day23 hrs (2008-08-17 14:27:47 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Thanks for the points, David. Really interesting stuff you're translating there!

Helen Shiner
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:48
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 275
Grading comment
great suggestions, I went with typological critique/artistic critique and will then leave the ability to "really" understand the play on words to the art critics who speak both German and English reading the texts!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Stephen Reader: Now why didn't I think of characteristic.
5 mins
agree  Ken Cox: Depending on the how much the critic could be assumed to write tongue in cheek, you might interpret 'Versuch einer artgemäßen [!] Kritik' as 'we all know about the NS associations, so I'm only going to discuss the work on its own terms'.
1 hr
  -> I think he certainly wants to stress that in his second article but was unconscious of his terminology perhaps the first time around. I really don't think there was any humour intended though. Came across as a Nazi sympathizer and was criticised for it.
agree  germaninterpret
2 hrs
  -> Thank you, germaninterpret
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