Händlerruf

English translation: street vendors' cries, "Cries", avatars

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
German term or phrase:Händlerrufe
English translation:street vendors' cries, "Cries", avatars
Entered by: Helen Shiner

13:10 Dec 5, 2008
German to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Art, Arts & Crafts, Painting / virtual world
German term or phrase: Händlerruf
Does this term have a connotation in the virtual world - in Second Life, for instance, please? Or in a digital signature. My context is a proposed exhibition comparing 19th-century travel photos and virtual worlds.
Helen Shiner
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:43
Cries
Explanation:
MASSIN, R: Händlerrufe aus europäischen Städten. ... Enthält Kaufrufe aus Paris (Les cris de Paris), London, Köln, Göttingen, Danzig, Nürnberg, Leipzig, ...
www.prolibri.de/?i=SMP3501946


Googeln nach “Kaufrufe” ergab, dass darunter nicht das eigentliche “Rufen” gemeint ist, sondern dass es sich dabei um ein **spezielles Genre*** handelt, nämlich das der **Berufsdarstellungen**.
: http://www.jochen-moeller.de/grafik_galerie/admin/bestellen....

den Bürstenkrämer : http://www.jochen-moeller.de/grafik_galerie/admin/bestellen....
und den Optiker: http://www.jochen-moeller.de/grafik_galerie/admin/bestellen....

“Wiener Typen werden gerne auf die so genannten "Kaufrufserien" zurückgeführt. Kaufrufe, "Cries" oder "Cris", kennzeichneten seit dem ausgehenden Mittelalter mobile Berufsgruppen, die wesentliche Versorgungsfunktionen innehatten.”
http://www.wienerzeitung.at/Desktopdefault.aspx?TabID=3946&A...


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Note added at 6 hrs (2008-12-05 20:02:47 GMT)
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“Händlerrufe” ist ein Synonym für “Kaufrufe”

Sorry, - das sollte als einleitender Satz zu meinen Ausführungen oben stehen!

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Note added at 2 days7 hrs (2008-12-07 20:26:44 GMT)
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@ Helen: According to my references, cries/cris is indeed the term for a *genre* of paintings. Cries as a in "call" would not make any sense!
The German word "Ruf" is being used in the same way as in Be*ruf*, i.e. Händlerruf= Hänflerberuf

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Note added at 2 days7 hrs (2008-12-07 20:27:20 GMT)
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oops... Händler*be*ruf!

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Note added at 2 days9 hrs (2008-12-07 22:47:20 GMT)
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Hi Helen! I do not see the problem:
Your sentence reads: “Ebenso würde sich ein vergleichender Blick auf die Händlerrufe (anbieten)[one genre=cries] und auf die Porträts der ethnographischen und Reisefotografie der Sammlung XX anbieten [another genre= ethnographic portraits, travel photography portraits]”
These are two (or maybe three) different genres.



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days10 hrs (2008-12-07 23:17:06 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

My understanding of the sentence and context you provided is that
the photographic “collection” consists of (2) ethnographic(photo) portraits and (3) travel photography portraits{ “die Porträts der ethnographischen und Reisefotografie der Sammlung XX”}

A comparison is to be drawn between (A) the contemporary artists’ use of the “Second Life” topos and (1)Cries and (2)(3).

This solves your problem with the translation of "Händlerrufe" -and it makes grammatical sense!
Selected response from:

Johanna Timm, PhD
Canada
Local time: 23:43
Grading comment
Thanks to everyone who contributed to this discussion, in particular Johanna, of course, for great research. In this instance, finally, it was the "Cries" that fitted the bill, but I will gloss other translations that might fit in other circumstances for future reference.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +3Cries
Johanna Timm, PhD
3merchant reputation
Eddy Coodee
1 -1call for vendors/exhibitors
Jonathan MacKerron


Discussion entries: 11





  

Answers


1 min   confidence: Answerer confidence 1/5Answerer confidence 1/5 peer agreement (net): -1
call for vendors/exhibitors


Explanation:
or am I way off base here?

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Note added at 8 mins (2008-12-05 13:18:17 GMT)
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lots of ghits in the context of e.g. "retailer reputation", but don't know about your specific context

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Note added at 10 mins (2008-12-05 13:20:06 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

the term "Reputation" comes up alot on their English website, perhaps something similar to Ebay's rating system??

Jonathan MacKerron
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 28
Notes to answerer
Asker: It generally means tradesmen's cries in a traditional sense, but it is difficult in this instance to see how they might be photographed. They are being compared to ethnographic imagery. I was wondering if the term meant some sort of digital tag used in Second Life - ie a more contemporary use of the term.

Asker: Yes, you cannot photograph a sound - really it seems as if my client will have to clarify.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  hazmatgerman (X): Rufende Markthändler stehen oft mit erhobenen Händen gestikulierend da, durchaus photogen.
1 hr
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18 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
merchant reputation


Explanation:
I don't think that "Ruf" should be translated as "call" in this case. In a virtual (commercial) world of buyers and sellers (think istockphoto.com) buyers would be able to judge the sellers, thus building a seller's reputation (indeed similar to eBay). "Händler" comes closer to merchant than to the mere seller, but I think both could be used.

Eddy Coodee
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:43
Native speaker of: Native in DutchDutch
Notes to answerer
Asker: sorry to have mislead you by lack of context, and thanks for your help. This really is a street vendor's cry or else some hip term from the virtual world.

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6 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
Händlerrufe
Cries


Explanation:
MASSIN, R: Händlerrufe aus europäischen Städten. ... Enthält Kaufrufe aus Paris (Les cris de Paris), London, Köln, Göttingen, Danzig, Nürnberg, Leipzig, ...
www.prolibri.de/?i=SMP3501946


Googeln nach “Kaufrufe” ergab, dass darunter nicht das eigentliche “Rufen” gemeint ist, sondern dass es sich dabei um ein **spezielles Genre*** handelt, nämlich das der **Berufsdarstellungen**.
: http://www.jochen-moeller.de/grafik_galerie/admin/bestellen....

den Bürstenkrämer : http://www.jochen-moeller.de/grafik_galerie/admin/bestellen....
und den Optiker: http://www.jochen-moeller.de/grafik_galerie/admin/bestellen....

“Wiener Typen werden gerne auf die so genannten "Kaufrufserien" zurückgeführt. Kaufrufe, "Cries" oder "Cris", kennzeichneten seit dem ausgehenden Mittelalter mobile Berufsgruppen, die wesentliche Versorgungsfunktionen innehatten.”
http://www.wienerzeitung.at/Desktopdefault.aspx?TabID=3946&A...


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 hrs (2008-12-05 20:02:47 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

“Händlerrufe” ist ein Synonym für “Kaufrufe”

Sorry, - das sollte als einleitender Satz zu meinen Ausführungen oben stehen!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days7 hrs (2008-12-07 20:26:44 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

@ Helen: According to my references, cries/cris is indeed the term for a *genre* of paintings. Cries as a in "call" would not make any sense!
The German word "Ruf" is being used in the same way as in Be*ruf*, i.e. Händlerruf= Hänflerberuf

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days7 hrs (2008-12-07 20:27:20 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

oops... Händler*be*ruf!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days9 hrs (2008-12-07 22:47:20 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Hi Helen! I do not see the problem:
Your sentence reads: “Ebenso würde sich ein vergleichender Blick auf die Händlerrufe (anbieten)[one genre=cries] und auf die Porträts der ethnographischen und Reisefotografie der Sammlung XX anbieten [another genre= ethnographic portraits, travel photography portraits]”
These are two (or maybe three) different genres.



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days10 hrs (2008-12-07 23:17:06 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

My understanding of the sentence and context you provided is that
the photographic “collection” consists of (2) ethnographic(photo) portraits and (3) travel photography portraits{ “die Porträts der ethnographischen und Reisefotografie der Sammlung XX”}

A comparison is to be drawn between (A) the contemporary artists’ use of the “Second Life” topos and (1)Cries and (2)(3).

This solves your problem with the translation of "Händlerrufe" -and it makes grammatical sense!


Johanna Timm, PhD
Canada
Local time: 23:43
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 71
Grading comment
Thanks to everyone who contributed to this discussion, in particular Johanna, of course, for great research. In this instance, finally, it was the "Cries" that fitted the bill, but I will gloss other translations that might fit in other circumstances for future reference.
Notes to answerer
Asker: Hi Johanna, you have come to the same conclusion as me, so thank you for confirming that, but I am left with the same issue. 'Cries' is still the noise and not the term for the genre of images. I translated it provisorisch as 'street vendors' cries' - for the sake of comprehension - I don't think 'merchants' will do - and I have lodged a query with my client. Meanwhile I am searching for the EN for the genre type, bearing in mind this 19th-century ethnographical photography and not depictions of 18th century Western street vendors, which may or may not make a difference. Thank you very much for your help.

Asker: Hi Johanna, I can confirm that 'cries' is used in this way for a particular 18th century painting genre: http://www.iash.ed.ac.uk/vkabstracts2.html but 19th-century photography? I do need to confirm this.

Asker: The Händlerrufe are part and parcel of the collection of photography, they are not paintings in this case.

Asker: I can only repeat that it is all photography. Just so you know where my original query came from re Second Life and an alternate meaning for the term: http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=215589&highlight=&sid=5e36d9e80ad091bbd19a925e0bd9af5a

Asker: And here again: http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?p=2464145&sid=c6197b43b82589b0eed030c0bcab5446


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Ken Cox: Brilliant research. Now I wonder whether the text is too erudite even for its intended audience...
18 hrs

agree  Mario Marcolin
3 days 2 hrs

agree  Stephen Reader: I hope Helen got to see @ least 1 of the photos in question - wd help so much. Meanwhile thx for a fascinating debate! Es grüßt /S.
3 days 16 hrs
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