Gestaltungswert

English translation: formal value (art)

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
German term or phrase:Gestaltungswert (Kunst)
English translation:formal value (art)
Entered by: Lonnie Legg

11:45 Oct 9, 2009
German to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Art, Arts & Crafts, Painting / Art theory
German term or phrase: Gestaltungswert
Unfortunately I have little context, it is a brief description of the work of a conceptual artist: "In ihrer [Kunst] geht sie von dem Gestaltungswert aus, der in den Arbeiten von Hobbymalern entsteht," this is not really described further. The term seems to be used with some frequency in German in other contexts. Any suggestions appreciated, thanks!
georg schreiner
Local time: 12:08
creative value/essence
Explanation:
But in translating, I would just leave out "value".
"In her art she channels the creativity found in the works..."
(or for a freer variant: "she is inspired by")

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Note added at 4 days (2009-10-13 20:25:18 GMT) Post-grading
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For my glossary entry, I have opted for the (presumably more valuable) art-criticism sense of the term.
As in: "Hopper's colours have a formal value, of some independence beyond their ..." (http://www.tate.org.uk/research/tateresearch/tatepapers/06au...
Cf. also Helen's proposal below.
Selected response from:

Lonnie Legg
Germany
Local time: 12:08
Grading comment
Thank you Lonnie, thank you everyone for your suggestions! From the way I understand the text, this is the most suitable answer, though it may not apply in other situations.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +3formal value
Helen Shiner
3 +1creative value/essence
Lonnie Legg
3the value of the design ( design value)
Elsje Apostel
3(inherent formal) potential
Stephen Reader
3 -1the value of the shape
transworder
2emphasis on form
Judith Imbo
3 -1conceptual idea (value)
Kphred


Discussion entries: 6





  

Answers


4 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -1
the value of the shape


Explanation:
In her art she is going out of the value of the shape, occasionally arising in amateur paintings.

transworder
Local time: 13:08

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Jim Tucker (X): (not English)
1 day 3 hrs
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18 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
the value of the design ( design value)


Explanation:
just an idea

Elsje Apostel
Belgium
Local time: 12:08
Native speaker of: Dutch
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25 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
emphasis on form


Explanation:
or
type of composition
or
interest in shapes/forms

Judith Imbo
Local time: 11:08
Works in field
Native speaker of: English

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Helen Shiner: yes, this is about form, though I would prefer the use of 'values', hence not quite an agree!
1 hr
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -1
conceptual idea (value)


Explanation:
In her art she uses (starts from) the conceptual ideas of amateurs.

Basically it means she tries to work from a certain basis of naivety (naiveté).

Kphred
Local time: 05:08
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Helen Shiner: no, it is formal values not conceptual ones
6 mins
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
formal value


Explanation:
I believe this is what is meant

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Note added at 2 hrs (2009-10-09 14:08:13 GMT)
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she employs the formal values of an amateur painter

But all art, in both third world and western cultural traditions, has decorative qualities, including formal values of composition and colour. The Toronto artist's phrase "mere wall decoration" indicates a lack of understanding of the fact that some art which "decorates" can also inform us with metaphor and beauty. It is not only pain that can teach us something.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Articles/GreggSimpson/painting_is_d...

Impressionist wave has made Whistler's work appear retrograde in comparison, another factor in Whistler's diminished standing in the public eye. In fact, Whistler's most original works, the Nocturnes, are closer in spirit to modern art than is Impressionism. The concentration in the Nocturnes on purely formal values of color and line traces a direct descent to the development of abstraction in the early twentieth-century.
http://www.glyphs.com/art/whistler/

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Note added at 7 hrs (2009-10-09 18:59:49 GMT)
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Another instance where the term is used. Here it is evident that it is the value of colour as colour itself, not what can be expressed with it that is meant by Gestaltungswert. When one speaks of such a way of looking at art or the visual of any kind, it is referred to as formalism, or a concern with the form or the formal. Hence formal values as I suggest.
Limiting its interpretation to something vague like 'creativity' or 'expression' is actually worse than vague, it is ascribing to the term a meaning in direct opposition to what is actually meant.
Nach der braun- und grautonigen Malerei des 19. Jahrhunderts entdeckten die "Brücke"-Maler Ernst Ludwig Kirchner, Erich Heckel, Karl Schmidt-Rottluff, Max Pechstein und Emil Nolde die Kraft der reinen, ungebrochenen und ungemischten Farbe. Sie befreiten die Farbe von der Aufgabe bloßer Gegenstandsbeschreibung und sahen sie als eigenständigen Ausdrucks- und Gestaltungswert. Durch die Gegenüberstellung kontrastierender Farben steigerten sie deren Intensität.
http://www.buchheimmuseum.de/cms/angebote/schulen.php

Helen Shiner
United Kingdom
Local time: 11:08
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 275

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  philgoddard
1 hr
  -> Thanks, philgoddard

neutral  Lonnie Legg: Good, based on your interpretation. But perhaps "entsteht" is critical here--something brought forth as a quality of the amateur's product. In the senses you have quoted, I would think the "Gestaltungswert" would be "angewandt" or "zum Ausdruck gebracht".
4 hrs
  -> Well, I really don't get your point - the artist's work is based on the formal values produced in the amateur work. I don't understand your sentence re 'angewandt' - applied? or 'zum Ausdruck gebracht' - give expression to? What am I missing?

agree  mill2
1 day 34 mins
  -> Thanks, mill

agree  Jim Tucker (X)
1 day 1 hr
  -> Thanks, Jim

neutral  Stephen Reader: Hi, Helen. Formal *potential* rather than value despite "-wert"?
1 day 11 hrs
  -> Hi Stephen - formal power might work, but I can't agree with formal potential, since this is found in already extant works.
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1 day 14 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
(inherent formal) potential


Explanation:
See ideas at Discussion. Wie IST denn "ihre Kunst"? Depending on precision of author's use of Gestaltung, & above all on the artist's work, it could be meant more 'formally' (Helen) or (e.g.) more psychologically, re. the shaping of one's environment as well as the visual world within the picture frame (tending towards Lonnie's 'creative' in that case), though that's formal too, of course. ...creative/design/formal/compositional potential.

Stephen Reader
Local time: 12:08
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 115

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Helen Shiner: No, the amateur works already exist, but I could see a case for 'formal power'. I don't really see how it is an improvement over 'value' though, which is the accepted term. Will depend on the tenor of the text.
5 hrs
  -> Thanks, Helen; see what you mean - but meant the potential that the extant amateur works offer for use by the conceptual artist - a resource.
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
creative value/essence


Explanation:
But in translating, I would just leave out "value".
"In her art she channels the creativity found in the works..."
(or for a freer variant: "she is inspired by")

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 days (2009-10-13 20:25:18 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

For my glossary entry, I have opted for the (presumably more valuable) art-criticism sense of the term.
As in: "Hopper's colours have a formal value, of some independence beyond their ..." (http://www.tate.org.uk/research/tateresearch/tatepapers/06au...
Cf. also Helen's proposal below.

Lonnie Legg
Germany
Local time: 12:08
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 16
Grading comment
Thank you Lonnie, thank you everyone for your suggestions! From the way I understand the text, this is the most suitable answer, though it may not apply in other situations.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Barbara Wiebking
2 hrs
  -> Thanks, kriddl.

disagree  Helen Shiner: If this is aimed at amateur artists/lay people, then possibly, but it misses the 'formal' aspect, so rather imprecise - sorry to disagree.//As far as I understand it, gestalten generally means to give something form in some way, not just to be creative.
2 hrs
  -> I don't follow you re "imprecise"--I think rather it's a question of whether the term is being used analytically (as you seem to read it) or more philosophically (or generally, if you prefer).

agree  Rolf Keiser: creative is good.
4 hrs
  -> Thanks, Goldcoaster.
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