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ideeller Gesamtkapitalist

15:37 Dec 9, 2005
German to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - Economics / Stamokap
German term or phrase: ideeller Gesamtkapitalist
The state is seen in late capitalism as "ideeller Gesamtkapitalist" (this I learned from Wikipedia, but I cannot find a translation into English). Is there any coined expression?
Carina Ceschi
Germany
Local time: 08:16


Summary of answers provided
4 +1ideal personification of the total national capital
Ian M-H (X)
4ideal collective capitalist
Susanne Rindlisbacher
3ideal complete capitalist
Сергей Лузан
2a beginning ...
hirselina
1perfectionist, all-encompassing capitalist
gangels (X)


  

Answers


5 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
a beginning ...


Explanation:
The idea is not so much to turn a city into what Marx would have called “ideeller Gesamtkapitalist”, i.e. an actor which aggregates all business interests, but rather to make a city a business-friendly place.
http://www.meyer-stamer.de/2002/JMS-LocParadox.pdf

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Note added at 7 mins (2005-12-09 15:45:40 GMT)
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Maybe "ideal universal capitalist " as in the article below?

http://www.mises.org/journals/rae/pdf/rae4_1_3.pdf

the state is an agency of capitalism, an organization that transforms the narrow-minded interests of individual capitalists into the interest of an ideal universal capitalist (the "ideelle Gesamtkapitalist"), which explains the existence of exploitation.

hirselina
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench, Native in DutchDutch

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Ian M-H (X): "ideal universal capitalist" could work if Asker wants something a little more catchy than the original English translation. It's not *much* more catchy, though ;-)
55 mins
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43 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 1/5Answerer confidence 1/5
perfectionist, all-encompassing capitalist


Explanation:
universal capitalist by ideology?

Does 'ideell' mean 'the best possible' or 'ideological'?



gangels (X)
Local time: 00:16
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 22
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45 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
ideal personification of the total national capital


Explanation:
Friedrich Engels

"Socialism: Utopian and Scientific", Chapter III
"The modern state, no matter what its form, is essentially a capitalist machine — the state of the capitalists, the ideal personification of the total national capital."
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1880/soc-utop/

Die Entwicklung des Sozialismus von der Utopie zur Wissenschaft
"Der moderne Staat, was auch seine Form, ist eine wesentlich kapitalistische Maschine, Staat der Kapitalisten, der ideelle Gesamtkapitalist."
http://www.vulture-bookz.de/marx/archive/volltext/Engels_188...

FE originally wrote this in French, so both of these are translations.

Ian M-H (X)
United States
Local time: 02:16
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  USER00230 (X): The term seems to have been coined by Marx, but the published Engels translation is very useful and should take precedence over other stabs in the dark, considering that you could probably write a thesis on this term
4 days
  -> Thanks. I couldn't find a direct quote from Marx, but then again I didn't spend very long looking.
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
ideal complete capitalist


Explanation:
makes sense from Marxist point of view for post-Marxist stage is imperialism AFAIK. Hope it helps you. Good luck, BerlinGer!
[PDF] Informatics – Science or Technology?
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
... against the interests of the capitals in another country, they are important (catchword ‘ideeller Gesamtkapitalist’, the idea of an complete capitalist). ...
www.idi.ntnu.no/~cassens/ download/informatics.current.pdf

Сергей Лузан
Russian Federation
Local time: 09:16
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in category: 7

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Ian M-H (X): Your answer could work in some contexts, but your cited reference does not help - "the capitals" and "an complete capitalist", for example, make it clear that this is not native English // I think that author is Finnish.
3 days 22 hrs
  -> Well Ian,I can't be responsible for nor literacy in En, can I? Hope 'policies of the WTO, World Bank and IMF shows the complete capitalist www.mail-archive.com/ [email protected]/msg01205.html' link makes you & the asker happier. (established term)
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7 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
ideal collective capitalist


Explanation:
As the ideal collective capitalist the state provides the real capitalists, the owners of the means of production, with those necessary conditions for competition which are not reproduced in competition.
www.gegenstandpunkt.com/english/state/toc.html

If the single capitalist doesn't invest in general conditions of production like railroads ortelecommunications and so on, than the government has to pay for it and by doing so he actslike the "ideal collective capitalist" as said by Frederick Engels.
eprints.rclis.org/archive/ 00004855/01/DigitalCommons_NewYork.pdf

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Note added at 4 days (2005-12-13 17:21:22 GMT)
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www.lancs.ac.uk/fss/sociology/papers/ jessop-future-of-the-capitalist-state-chapter1.pdf
www.duke.edu/~hardt/mp3.htm

Susanne Rindlisbacher
Portugal
Local time: 07:16
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Ian M-H (X): Your answer could work in some contexts, but your German web reference doesn't really help and the other one also looks non-native ("than", "as said by" and the use of "he" for "the government") // That gives Asker yet more to plough through! ;-)
3 days 18 hrs
  -> Yes, the sources were not the best. I added some better ones, above. As it happens, both your and my suggestion get 114 Google hits.
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