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German to English translations [PRO] Bus/Financial - Economics
German term or phrase:Challenging sentence
I have to translate the following sentence, which is part of an essay on the social market economy:
Das wichtigste Kriterium ist die Gewährung eines funktionsfähigen Preissystems vollständiger Konkurrenz als wirtschaftsverfassungs rechtliches Grundprinzip.
I'm at a loss here. Does anyone have any suggestions how to translate this?
To me, the sentence makes perfect sense. here's my attempt at the translation:
"The most important criterion is the provision of a functioning competitive market price system as a fundamental economic constitutional principle."... [you should get rid of 'legal' as this is already inherent in 'constitution'.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 2 hrs (2010-02-12 02:00:00 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Maybe I should explain:
Markt mit vollständiger Konkurrenz= [perfectly] competitive market, a basic economic principle. In this kind of market, the price is formed by demand and supply, as opposed to another type [non-competitive] of market structure.
I don't think it is the regional difference, it is just that, to me, it is not good writing, when it is not easy readable or when it can be confused.
Ronald van der Linden (X)
Mexico
returning to subject @ Steve
22:22 Feb 12, 2010
Could it be that this particular sentence structure is more common in south/southeast Germany and Austria? Sometimes I get translations, and they contain this type of structures and use of other vocabulary. Since you had lived in Northern Germany, maybe that's why it looks akward to you?
I'm not a grammatical expert in German, I had to study it for many, many years as part of my accountancy education, oh how I suffered :P hehehe... and look at me now, German-Dutch is my most important language combination! without it I wouldn't even be a translator now, I think.
Ronald van der Linden (X)
Mexico
lirka
22:14 Feb 12, 2010
hahaha really? slovenian a horrible language? next time I'm in the neighbourhood I'll listen more closely... I only know I didn't understand much as a kid, even though I was brought up bilingual serb-croat/dutch, but Slovenia is a beautiful country, maybe the Austrian is just very jealous hahaha
Scorpio107 (X)
20:29 Feb 12, 2010
Not at all. Slovenski jezike and Nederlandse spraak are very nice. I personally, like the sound of both of them. Having lived in Northern Germany makes Dutch sound very familiar.
Ronald, we have a thing in common...two, actually.
18:33 Feb 12, 2010
First we both agree that people generally cannot write. With all the sms-ing, emailing and what not technology that's likely to get even worse in the future. Second, we both speak horrible languages. A friend of mine, an Austrian native, has once told me that there are just two languages he absolutely cannot stand: Dutch and Slovenian. I remained silent for a good reason :)
Ronald van der Linden (X)
Mexico
18:14 Feb 12, 2010
well, me being Dutch and of course proud of my language, and always joking about German... well here in Mexico they tell me Dutch is horrifying, while German sounds softer in their ears... Couldn't believe it... but I'm accepting that now :)
I guess 2 things are happening regarding the "horrible" structure, either the German language is changing (which is most likely, but I have no comparison) or people don't know how to write, which is true throughout the world.
It may well be terrible German, but the native ears can be the best judge of that. For the rest of us... German always sounds terrible-- no, totally kidding [really!]...what I wanted to say is that we [speaking for myself, of course] only try to get the meaning, and if the subject matter is familiar, we're sometimes even successful! Have a good weekend, everyone :)
Scorpio107 (X)
18:04 Feb 12, 2010
Thanks, Iirka and Ronald, I've learned something new today. Mind you, I still think the German sentence sounds terrible. ;-)
Ronald van der Linden (X)
Mexico
common construction
14:58 Feb 12, 2010
"eines funktionsfähigen Preissystems vollständiger Konkurrenz" is an example of a type of construction, in my humble experience, that I encounter quite often in German texts where an adjective-noun-adjective-noun sequence has no interruption and should be interpreted as "in relation to, under, of, from, etc"
"Preissystems vollständiger Konkurrenz" could be translated to English something like "a perfect competition pricing system". I don't see why there should be an "at", "with" or anything else added to this particular part in English or in German.
I'd understand, however, for readability, that one could add "under" for example "a price system under perfect competition" or "a price system as in a perfect market". In my opinion it would depend on the context and remaining part of the paragraph whether to simply translate this as "a perfect competition pricing system" or, when in the same paragraph different pricing systems are covered to use "a pricing system under perfect competition".
I think it's OK. It just means that what's required is a price system of a perfectly competitive market, where demand&supply form the price as opposed to other 'forces' in other types of markets.
Scorpio107 (X)
01:56 Feb 12, 2010
I think there is a word missing behind Preissystems. Ether "bei" or "von" or "mit" or "einschließlich". I presume it is "einschließlich" = "Icluding", then it would make sense.
...if you post smaller sections as KudoZ questions (while giving the entire sentence as context), people will - maybe - feel more inclined to respond. The whole sentence looks a bit intimidating:-) In addition, shorter term sections [i.e. "wirtschaftsverfassungsrechtlich"; "funktionsfähig"; "Preissystem"] lend themselves better for glossary entries that then will help future users.
The biggest problem stems from the sections "eines funktionsfähigen Preissystems vollständiger Konkurrenz" and "wirtschaftsverfassungsrechtliches Grundprinzip."
...and post the segments/terms that present the most difficulties?
Automatic update in 00:
Answers
2 hrs confidence: peer agreement (net): +2
it makes sense to me :)
Explanation: Marion,
To me, the sentence makes perfect sense. here's my attempt at the translation:
"The most important criterion is the provision of a functioning competitive market price system as a fundamental economic constitutional principle."... [you should get rid of 'legal' as this is already inherent in 'constitution'.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 2 hrs (2010-02-12 02:00:00 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Maybe I should explain:
Markt mit vollständiger Konkurrenz= [perfectly] competitive market, a basic economic principle. In this kind of market, the price is formed by demand and supply, as opposed to another type [non-competitive] of market structure.
Hope it helps :) Good night!
Lirka Austria Local time: 20:42 Works in field Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Thanks to everyone for helping out with this. I'm glad I initiated an interesting discussion. :)
Notes to answerer
Asker: I had something along those lines, but yours sounds a lot more elegant. :) Thanks!
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peer agreement (net): +2