This site uses cookies.
Some of these cookies are essential to the operation of the site,
while others help to improve your experience by providing insights into how the site is being used.
For more information, please see the ProZ.com privacy policy.
German to English translations [PRO] Law/Patents - Forestry / Wood / Timber / in an inheritance matter
German term or phrase:Holzungen
In a last will someone bequeathes shares in "Ackerland, Forsten und Holzungen". I would translate it as "arable land, forests and groves". Any other suggestions? This is a set phrase, but I haven't found an appropriate translation. Your help is much appreciated.
Explanation: Agricultural land, forestry and woodlands - can also include plantations and coppices
Arable land is only for crops
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 13 mins (2018-10-21 13:45:09 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Woodland is used in British woodland management to mean tree-covered areas which arose naturally and which are then managed, while forest is usually used in the British Isles to describe plantations, usually more extensive, or hunting Forests, which are a land use with a legal definition and may not be wooded at all. The term ancient woodland is used in British nature conservation to refer to any wooded land that has existed since 1600, and often (though not always) for thousands of years, since the last Ice Age[
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 15 mins (2018-10-21 13:47:07 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Arable land is able to be ploughed and planted with crops, as opposed to pasturable land, which is used for grazing. Both are agricultural land.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 28 mins (2018-10-21 13:59:51 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Types of woodland include: copses, woods, thickets, coppices and groups of trees such as orchards, plantations and spinneys. "Holt" in place names usually also refers to woodland (as does "Holz" in German)
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 1 day 7 hrs (2018-10-22 20:37:01 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
The Institute of Chartered Foresters (ICF) is also a chartered body with a public interest remit. It has 775 Chartered Forester members. ICF regulates and promotes** forestry** and arboriculture to ensure the sustainable development of forests, **woodlands** and trees in the UK.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 1 day 7 hrs (2018-10-22 20:41:09 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Building a Name - The History of the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors (RICS)
RICS promotes and enforces the highest professional qualifications and standards in the development and management of land, real estate, construction and infrastructure. Our name promises the consistent delivery of standards - bringing confidence to the markets we serve. We accredit 118,000 professionals and any individual or firm registered with RICS is subject to our quality assurance. Their expertise covers property valuation and management; the costing and leadership of construction projects; the development of infrastructure; and the management of natural resources, such as mining, farms and **woodland**.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 1 day 7 hrs (2018-10-22 20:47:21 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Just found this in my notes from the course with Mr. Webb, our lecturer on valuation - note that the terms woodland AND woodlands are both used
When a farm contains commercial **woodlands**, where the timber is grown for sale, these must be valued separately. This value is a combination of the value of the land on which the timber is standing plus the value of the timber itself. Such a valuation is a highly specialised activity and the value will depend on the size, age and type of timber present. Any sporting rights or **commercial woodlands** would normally be valued separately to the land, using the comparison method if possible. Specialised buildings on the farmland may have to be valued using the Depreciated Cost Replacement method rather than by comparison.
The term "Holzung" isn't even mentioned in the German BWaldG (Federal Forest Act), so that was a difficult one. I chose Yorkshireman's answer because of the definitions he provided for the terms 'forest' and 'woodland'. Thanks to everyone who contributed to the discussion. 4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer
Although the question has been decided, please review the document titled "Recent Dynamics of the Mediterranean Vegetation and Landscape" you posted as a reference - http://tinyurl.com/yb2kr5ag Pages, 64, 79, 111, 159 and 183 all speak of woodland in great detail.
The "groves" mentioned in this document are merely sporadic mentions of plantations of olives or sweet chestnuts.
still not convinced as "Holzung" has a quite different meaning, explained in detail. But we do not discuss forestry or landscape preservation, where we should be as precise as possibe. In inheritage matters a more general term may work, too.
At a pinch, the Holzungen could also be described as **plantations** (which are, of course, also woodlands, as mentioned in the first couple of lines of my answer)
Since G was looking for "an appropriate translation," anything that looks like a unrelated mishmash of references should not be posted as an answer.
In the land economy context, I think we are looking at this meaning: https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-662-36323-2_... "Waldgrundgerechtigkeiten sind Grundgerechtigkeiten, welche auf Waldungen (Holzungen), d. h. auf zur Holzzucht bestimmten, mit Holz bestandenen Grundstücken lasten"
It's a shame that the limerick illustrating usage of "grove" by the award-winning writer was deleted. Unless it's a sacred grove, the Baumgruppe needs to be a grove of something: orange grove, coconut grove, mangrove grove, etc. All of these can be modernized to "stand of _ trees" or "[name of tree] stand."
Please observe that "Holzungen" has 2 different meanings. You selected obviously "Abholzen", I selected the other signification "Gehölz, Hain". And Great Britan is not referred to, but Germany as the source text is German. The asker's context is real estate, planted partly with trees.
You have missed the point again, one of the key uses for Holzungen was for obtaining wood for the production of charcoal in CLAMPS, not piles - what's more, no one mentioned exploitation. Speaking of "should be understood", the translation of Holzungen should be understood in the asker's context as woodland. BTW: for the British market, pit props were generally made from spruce that was imported from Canada.
Thank you for explanation! I deduct from this that you explored former mines, where wood was harvested to manufacture pit props to line mines. This differs totally from the sense of "Holzung" asked for. But I understand a little bit better, how you could equate "Holzung" and "woodland".
See my annexe referring to charcoal piling, too. Still one word: The the "last paragraph" was not addressed to you, but to another peer, who missed in the discussion to mention essential requirements for proper translations.
Hope this clarifies the situation. If you feel still being hurt, I kindly apologizes for this.
...dass ein guter Übersetzer nicht nur ein vertieftes Verständnis der Ausgangssprache, sondern auch der Zielsprache besitzen muss, weil er sonst den Bedeutungsumfang nicht klar erkennen kann. Das ist bei seltenen Ausdrücken wie "grove" besonders wichtig. Diesen Ausdruck kennen selbst die meisten Engländer nicht. Warum sollte ihn dann ein Deutscher besser verstehen als ein Engländer? Ist keine Kritik, blah blah blah...
Translating cannot be reduced to a reliance on dictionaries, norms, machine translations, search skills and a research "system" by someone who studied the target language in high school. Respect is due to the instincts and knowledge of an educated native speaker for the nuances of the target language, in this case the English language.
Um die Antworten zu würdigen, darf man nicht einzelne angeblich schwache Referenzen herauspicken oder so bezeichnen, sondern muss alle zusammen betrachten, vor allem die zweisprachigen und die Definitionen. Noch schlimmer wäre es zu glauben, dass man mit derem Erschüttern alle anderen negieren könne. Ich habe nicht nur Leo und dicct.cc zitiert, sondern auch Fachwörterbücher, 4 weitere Bücher, 3 x den Duden, 3 x Merriam-Webster.
Damit habe ich das geleistet, was die Grundlage für ein vollständiges Bild sein muss, und meine Schlüsse daraus gezogen. Das hätte ich mir auch von anderen gewünscht. Einsprachige Referenzen allein können keine Sicherheit bieten, weil der "missing link" fehlt. Müsste man eigentlich aus seiner Übersetzerausbildung wissen.
I do not doubt on the term "woodland" but that this is correct translation for "Holzung". Monolingual references can never prove the coincidence.
...so etwas wie LEO ist kein Wörterbuch. Ich hatte auch vor langer Zeit mal erklärt, warum. Mir erschließt sich nicht, woher dieser Irrglaube kommt und mit den Missgriffen, die die Leute machen, weil sie in LEO & Co. nachschauen, hatte ich oft zu kämpfen.
Nebenbei stützen auch keine "echten" Wörterbucher (die auch alle deskriptiv arbeiten!) die Sache mit der Waldgruppe in Englisch; Oxford nennt diese Bedeutung gar ein literarisches Mittel.
Ich weiß nicht, wer auf die Idee kommen würde, eine "grove" zu verkaufen bzw. zu vererben.
Natürlich stützen sich meine Meinungen im Allgemeinen auf Referenzen, auch wenn ich nicht jede hier angebe. Du kannst dir aber sicher sein, dass ich mich vorher informiert habe, um solchen Sachen aus dem Weg zu gehen.
Der von mir genannte mango grove ist sicher ein Hain und garantiert kein "Gehölz".
Auch sonst scheinst du hier Sprachwissenschaften wie Ingenieurswissenschaften zu handhaben - das geht schlicht nicht. Und die Versuche, DE-EN-Datenbanken als Wörterbücher zu verkaufen, sehe ich auch nicht gerne.
Der Duden-Link ist viel zu wenig aussagekräftig. Hier ist einer: "ein kleiner Wald oder eine größere Gruppe von Waldbäumen, welche für eine eigentlich forstwirtschaftliche Benutzung zu wenig ausgedehnt sind" http://elexikon.ch/holzung
It is always a problem to decide between what is written and what is meant - no one in real estate/estate related matters would ever offer agricultural land, forestry and GROVES - if it means anything to you, I studied to become a Member of the Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyors (everything to do with the valuation, buying and selling of land and property), before moving to geophysics and then translating. It's not a matter of using a known English word, but knowing how and when a word should be interpreted for use in a particular context. To coin a phrase, "Richtig ist immer relativ" - information overkill often simply confuses the matter.
So weit ich sehe, ist die Aussage "A Holzung has little to do with a mango or a sequoia grove" eine persönliche Meinung, die sich auf keine Referenzen stützt, schon gar nicht auf die Definition von Holzung und ein entsprechendes Wörterbuch. Genau das ist Manko beim Vorschlag "woodland". Es ist immer möglich, einen englischen Begriff zu nennen, den man kennt und der dem deutschen Begriff nahe kommt. Um aber den deutschen Begriff zuverlässig und richtig zu übersetzen, muss man a) die Definitionen (z.B. im Duden) suchen und b) die richtigen Übersetzungen dafür finden.
Thanks for your support. I shouldn't, I know - but sometimes I feel I have to.
Incidentally, around 40 years ago, I was involved in research for a three-dimensional forestry project back in the UK that predated your agroforestry suggestion by quite a few years - nothing much seems to have happened since.
You'll often hear the word refer to a group of trees cultivated by humans, often for commercial purposes, such as an apple grove planted to supply produce to grocery stores. https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/grove
Automatic update in 00:
Answers
8 mins confidence: peer agreement (net): +5
holzungen
woodland
Explanation: Agricultural land, forestry and woodlands - can also include plantations and coppices
Arable land is only for crops
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 13 mins (2018-10-21 13:45:09 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Woodland is used in British woodland management to mean tree-covered areas which arose naturally and which are then managed, while forest is usually used in the British Isles to describe plantations, usually more extensive, or hunting Forests, which are a land use with a legal definition and may not be wooded at all. The term ancient woodland is used in British nature conservation to refer to any wooded land that has existed since 1600, and often (though not always) for thousands of years, since the last Ice Age[
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 15 mins (2018-10-21 13:47:07 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Arable land is able to be ploughed and planted with crops, as opposed to pasturable land, which is used for grazing. Both are agricultural land.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 28 mins (2018-10-21 13:59:51 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Types of woodland include: copses, woods, thickets, coppices and groups of trees such as orchards, plantations and spinneys. "Holt" in place names usually also refers to woodland (as does "Holz" in German)
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 1 day 7 hrs (2018-10-22 20:37:01 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
The Institute of Chartered Foresters (ICF) is also a chartered body with a public interest remit. It has 775 Chartered Forester members. ICF regulates and promotes** forestry** and arboriculture to ensure the sustainable development of forests, **woodlands** and trees in the UK.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 1 day 7 hrs (2018-10-22 20:41:09 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Building a Name - The History of the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors (RICS)
RICS promotes and enforces the highest professional qualifications and standards in the development and management of land, real estate, construction and infrastructure. Our name promises the consistent delivery of standards - bringing confidence to the markets we serve. We accredit 118,000 professionals and any individual or firm registered with RICS is subject to our quality assurance. Their expertise covers property valuation and management; the costing and leadership of construction projects; the development of infrastructure; and the management of natural resources, such as mining, farms and **woodland**.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 1 day 7 hrs (2018-10-22 20:47:21 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Just found this in my notes from the course with Mr. Webb, our lecturer on valuation - note that the terms woodland AND woodlands are both used
When a farm contains commercial **woodlands**, where the timber is grown for sale, these must be valued separately. This value is a combination of the value of the land on which the timber is standing plus the value of the timber itself. Such a valuation is a highly specialised activity and the value will depend on the size, age and type of timber present. Any sporting rights or **commercial woodlands** would normally be valued separately to the land, using the comparison method if possible. Specialised buildings on the farmland may have to be valued using the Depreciated Cost Replacement method rather than by comparison.
Yorkshireman Germany Local time: 04:16 Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 32
Grading comment
The term "Holzung" isn't even mentioned in the German BWaldG (Federal Forest Act), so that was a difficult one. I chose Yorkshireman's answer because of the definitions he provided for the terms 'forest' and 'woodland'. Thanks to everyone who contributed to the discussion.
peer agreement (net): +5