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darkommen möchten

English translation: be able to (land) a strike so perfectly and powerfully

15:32 Jun 6, 2013
German to English translations [PRO]
History / Medieval swordfighting
German term or phrase: darkommen möchten
This is a term used in a medieval "fencing book" quoted in a book about swords. Full paragraph below.
Any ideas of how best to translate it?
Mary

Der Schwertmeister des HS 3227a lässt sich beispielsweise nur über die Grifflänge aus. Seiner Meinung nach muss der Griff lang genug für beide Hände sein:
„Auch wisse, dass ein guter Fechter soll vor allen Dingen sein Schwert gewiss und sicher führen und fassen mit beiden Händen zwischen Gehilz und Kloß, so hält er das Schwert viel sicherer, denn dass er‘s bei dem Kloße fasset mit einer Hand. Und er schlägt auch viel härter und sicherer, wenn der Kloß sich überwirft und mit dem Schlag schwingt, so dass der Schlag viel härter darkommt, denn dass er das Schwert mit dem Kloße fasset. Wenn er also den Schlag mit dem Kloß zieht, wird er nicht so vollkommen und stark ** darkommen möchten **.“
Mary Burdman
United States
Local time: 21:31
English translation:be able to (land) a strike so perfectly and powerfully
Explanation:
In the first "darkommen" I would choose "land" and in the second - which you have asked for - land a strike

or even "draw blood"
Selected response from:

Ramey Rieger (X)
Germany
Local time: 03:31
Grading comment
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +2hit
Charlotte Bolton-Knight
3 +2be able to (land) a strike so perfectly and powerfully
Ramey Rieger (X)
3 +1will probably turn out
Johanna Timm, PhD
4Thus, when he makes the thrust grabbing at the pommel, it will not go home as powerfully
stehletheo
Summary of reference entries provided
darkommen and daherkommen
Bernhard Sulzer

Discussion entries: 1





  

Answers


13 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
hit


Explanation:
I think what is meant is simply that by using the different grip the fencer wont be able to hit as accurately and strongly.
möchten hier doesnt mean "would like", but is a way of expression a possibility, like mögen which is sometimes used in a similar way (cf. sein mögen)

Charlotte Bolton-Knight
Germany
Local time: 03:31
Native speaker of: German

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  philgoddard: I've never seen möchten used in this way though. Are you sure it's not a typo for mögen?
1 hr
  -> no, its just old German :-) My grandparents still said things like "das möchte wohl stimmen"
agree  Bernhard Sulzer: see my reference
10 hrs
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31 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
be able to (land) a strike so perfectly and powerfully


Explanation:
In the first "darkommen" I would choose "land" and in the second - which you have asked for - land a strike

or even "draw blood"

Ramey Rieger (X)
Germany
Local time: 03:31
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 41

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Helen Shiner
1 hr
  -> Thank you Helen, it's a nice word, isn't it? Be well.
agree  Bernhard Sulzer: see my reference
10 hrs
  -> Thank you Bernhard!
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11 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
will probably turn out


Explanation:
darkommen= daherkommen

"...so dass der Schlag viel härter darkommt, denn dass er das Schwert mit dem Kloße fasset"=
...so dass der Schlag viel härter ausfällt, als wenn er das Schwert am Knauf hält

"Wenn er also den Schlag mit dem Kloß zieht, wird er nicht so vollkommen und stark darkommen möchten"=
Wenn er also das Schwert mit dem Knauf packt, wird er (der Schlag) vermutlich nicht so perfekt und nicht so kraftvoll ausfallen."

-Historisches Fechten: http://www.stahlaufstahl.de/wr/?p=646
- Historical fencing terms, English-German:
http://www.khukriwala.com/sword-fencing-terminology.html




Johanna Timm, PhD
Canada
Local time: 18:31
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 60

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Bernhard Sulzer: Agree for the first instance; I read "möchten" as "vermöchten/vermögen" (being able to, as one wants), and the last "er" could be related to the fencer ...
10 hrs
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19 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Thus, when he makes the thrust grabbing at the pommel, it will not go home as powerfully


Explanation:
The answer here doesn't lie in the literal translation of the two words "darkommen moechten". We are dealing here with an idiomatic expression which has to be translated as a whole, therefore the sentence rather than the two words. The Oxford Dictionary under the word "home" provides the background with the phrase (point 9. in my version) the thrust went home, meaning "to the point aimed at". The word for "Kloss" or "Knauf" in English is "pommel", designating the knob at the end of the hilt

Example sentence(s):
  • See above under target term
stehletheo
Local time: 03:31
Native speaker of: Native in AfrikaansAfrikaans, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
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Reference comments


11 hrs
Reference: darkommen and daherkommen

Reference information:
I believe both answers work for you. The option with "land" is closer to the word's original denotation and, at the same time, more general, and might work better in the first instance - "presents itself", while in the second occurrence, "hit" might fit better because it relates more directly to an actual strike.

http://woerterbuchnetz.de/DWB/?sigle=DWB&mode=Vernetzung&lem...

I think it's close to the newer word "daherkommen" - "present itself, "occurs", "is being produced".
see:
http://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/daherkommen

-----------------------------------------
http://www.rzuser.uni-heidelberg.de/~cd2/drw/e/da/rkom/darko...
__________

möchten: here as in: "wird es ihm nicht gelingen (wie dem Wunsche gemäß), daherzukommen (=zuzuschlagen)"

Bernhard Sulzer
United States
Works in field
Native speaker of: German
PRO pts in category: 16
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