Mosjös

English translation: The Monsewers

10:41 Jan 15, 2014
German to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - History / First World War
German term or phrase: Mosjös
Military abbreviation? Nationality designator?
From a piece about trench warfare in late 1914. The entity is firing at German troops.
"sandten uns die
Mosjös ihren Morgengruß, ein paar Schrapnell vor-
auf und dann etliche Granaten als Hauptspeise. "
Many thanks in advance for your ideas.
Maureen Millington-Brodie
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:51
English translation:The Monsewers
Explanation:
A derogatory name for French soldiers (or indeed the French as a whole).

The Monsewers sent us our breakfast - an appetiser of shrapnel, followed by a main course of countless shells.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 hrs (2014-01-15 17:27:16 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

In WWII the expressions Franzmänner (Germany) and Frogs (Britain) would have been more likely.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 hrs (2014-01-15 22:07:45 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

WW I and earlier, the German term was the term most likely to be (in its friendliest form)
"Der Franzos". Frog, frogs, froggies is typical WW II.

I know my dad called them frogs (and Vichy bastards!) when his unit helped the Free French to kick them out of Aleppo in Syria in the summer of 1941 (yes, the Brits fought against the French in WW II!) and later in Algeria and Tunisia.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 hrs (2014-01-15 22:26:19 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

A bit of trivia:
Since the 18th century, the name “John Bull,” according to the OED, has personified “the English nation; Englishmen collectively; the typical Englishman.”

Early in the following century, the name “Johnny (or Jean) Crapaud” was first used to mean a Frenchman, Oxford says. (Crapaud is French for “toad.”)

Could this be what developed into frog? The most effective weapon of the French army in WW I was also called a Crapaud, a squat trench mortar.

More trivia: servicemens' nicknames for themselves and others:
ANZACs: Australians and New Zealanders (from A. and NZ. Army Corps).
Americans: Yanks. For themselves = Doughboys. French version = Sammy. German version = Teufelshunde (Devil dogs, for US Marines)
Australians: Aussie, Digger. For themselves = Billjim, Dinkum (for Australian Gallipoli veteran), Tazzie (from Tazmania), Westralian (from Western Australia).
British: Tommy, (also used by the Germans), Tommy Atkins, Fred Karno's Army, Old Contemptibles. Also Jock = Scotsman, Mick = Irishman. Australian version = Kitch = (Kitchener's Volunteer Army).
Canadians: Canuck.
Egyptians: Gyppo.
French: Frenchie, Frog. For themselves = Bon hommes (gentlemen) and Poilus (bearded ones).
Germans: Alleyman, Boche, Hun, Jerry, Kraut (from Sauerkraut), and Square head (after the shape of the STAHLHELM M1916 steel helmet). American version = Heine. For themselves = Frontschwein (Front-line pigs)
Italians: Macaroni, Itie.
New Zealanders: Digger, Kiwi, Fern-leaf (after the NZ cap-badge), Enzedder.
Ottomans/Turks: Abdul, Jacko, Johnny Turk.
Pathans: Forty Thieves. (Indian troops from the North West Frontier Province, now Pakistan).
Portuguese: Antonio, Geese, Pork and beans, Pork and cheese.
Russians: Russkie.
South Africans: Afrikaaner, Boer.
Selected response from:

Yorkshireman
Germany
Local time: 18:51
Grading comment
I liked the touch of humour provided, deliberate misspelling as well like the German. Thanks!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +3The Monsewers
Yorkshireman
3 -3Messrs.
owhisonant (X)


Discussion entries: 17





  

Answers


4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -3
Messrs.


Explanation:
I would use this rather than the rather more pejorative "Frenchie", let alone "frog". The author writes with some mild sarcasm and humor, but not in a derogatory fashion.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2014-01-15 14:46:49 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Messrs. sent us their morning regards, an appetizer of shrapnel followed by a main course of several grenades...

owhisonant (X)
Germany
Local time: 18:51
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman, Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  philgoddard: Messrs is a form of address, so it has to be followed by a name. You couldn't say "Mr sent us his regards".
1 hr
  -> A. Read the original, B. Messrs. is indeed an address and was once used as Sirs is today - not followed by names (pl.!).

disagree  Helen Shiner: This isn't even the FR spelling, so would just cloud the issue./Sounds more like a gentleman's outfitters.
1 hr
  -> Obviously, Mosjös is also not the FR spelling. Messrs., while dated, is an acceptable abbreviation of Messieurs.

disagree  Yorkshireman: Agree with Helen and Phil and Granaten are very probably artillery shells. Hand grenades wouldn't be much of a main course after shrapnel
3 hrs
  -> Agree away. Your monsewers might be better. However, rifle-driven grenades were commonly used in the trenches, and you wouldn't want to be at the wrong end of one, even after a shrapnel starter ;-)
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

6 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +3
The Monsewers


Explanation:
A derogatory name for French soldiers (or indeed the French as a whole).

The Monsewers sent us our breakfast - an appetiser of shrapnel, followed by a main course of countless shells.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 hrs (2014-01-15 17:27:16 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

In WWII the expressions Franzmänner (Germany) and Frogs (Britain) would have been more likely.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 hrs (2014-01-15 22:07:45 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

WW I and earlier, the German term was the term most likely to be (in its friendliest form)
"Der Franzos". Frog, frogs, froggies is typical WW II.

I know my dad called them frogs (and Vichy bastards!) when his unit helped the Free French to kick them out of Aleppo in Syria in the summer of 1941 (yes, the Brits fought against the French in WW II!) and later in Algeria and Tunisia.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 hrs (2014-01-15 22:26:19 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

A bit of trivia:
Since the 18th century, the name “John Bull,” according to the OED, has personified “the English nation; Englishmen collectively; the typical Englishman.”

Early in the following century, the name “Johnny (or Jean) Crapaud” was first used to mean a Frenchman, Oxford says. (Crapaud is French for “toad.”)

Could this be what developed into frog? The most effective weapon of the French army in WW I was also called a Crapaud, a squat trench mortar.

More trivia: servicemens' nicknames for themselves and others:
ANZACs: Australians and New Zealanders (from A. and NZ. Army Corps).
Americans: Yanks. For themselves = Doughboys. French version = Sammy. German version = Teufelshunde (Devil dogs, for US Marines)
Australians: Aussie, Digger. For themselves = Billjim, Dinkum (for Australian Gallipoli veteran), Tazzie (from Tazmania), Westralian (from Western Australia).
British: Tommy, (also used by the Germans), Tommy Atkins, Fred Karno's Army, Old Contemptibles. Also Jock = Scotsman, Mick = Irishman. Australian version = Kitch = (Kitchener's Volunteer Army).
Canadians: Canuck.
Egyptians: Gyppo.
French: Frenchie, Frog. For themselves = Bon hommes (gentlemen) and Poilus (bearded ones).
Germans: Alleyman, Boche, Hun, Jerry, Kraut (from Sauerkraut), and Square head (after the shape of the STAHLHELM M1916 steel helmet). American version = Heine. For themselves = Frontschwein (Front-line pigs)
Italians: Macaroni, Itie.
New Zealanders: Digger, Kiwi, Fern-leaf (after the NZ cap-badge), Enzedder.
Ottomans/Turks: Abdul, Jacko, Johnny Turk.
Pathans: Forty Thieves. (Indian troops from the North West Frontier Province, now Pakistan).
Portuguese: Antonio, Geese, Pork and beans, Pork and cheese.
Russians: Russkie.
South Africans: Afrikaaner, Boer.


Yorkshireman
Germany
Local time: 18:51
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 8
Grading comment
I liked the touch of humour provided, deliberate misspelling as well like the German. Thanks!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Rebecca Garber: This is an attested derogatory spelling used in England in WWII for the French.
13 mins

neutral  Helen Shiner: I think this is a step too far in the direction of derogatory.../That may well be, but we have to translate not only the word but the tone otherwise it would be an overtranslation, wouldn't it?
29 mins
  -> Britons of many centuries would have said that you can't go far enough when insulting the French. A true story: the signing of the treaty with the Maoris was delayed after they ate the crew of a British ship. They said they thought they were French.

agree  H. C. Centner
1 hr

agree  mcbride
1 day 53 mins

neutral  Trude Stegmann: With Helen, Mosjös is more neutral than this term/I have talked to a survivor of WWI. They were a lot more polite (on both sides) than people might imagine today. This actual term is jocular, but polite. Why inject a sentiment different from the author's?
3 days 2 mins
  -> Slightly different spelling: Das preußische Heer verlangte stürmisch den Krieg, und Blücher wetterte, es sei Zeit, „alles Schelmfranzosenzeug samt dem Musjö Napoleon vom deutschen Boden zu vertilgen". Polite and friendly enough?
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)



Login or register (free and only takes a few minutes) to participate in this question.

You will also have access to many other tools and opportunities designed for those who have language-related jobs (or are passionate about them). Participation is free and the site has a strict confidentiality policy.

KudoZ™ translation help

The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators and others to assist each other with translations or explanations of terms and short phrases.


See also:
Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search