Grossdeutschtum

English translation: enthusiasm/agitation/fervour for (a) Greater Germany

09:49 Mar 10, 2014
German to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - History
German term or phrase: Grossdeutschtum
Is this just a synonym for Pangermanismus/Alldeutsche Bewegung?

I ask in connection with a Czech>English question at http://www.proz.com/kudoz/czech_to_english/history/5495084-v...

"When the border regions (of Bohemia) became part of the Third Reich, a wave of velkoněmectví (literally Grossdeutschtum) swept over the region"
Stuart Hoskins
Local time: 03:19
English translation:enthusiasm/agitation/fervour for (a) Greater Germany
Explanation:
!) Assuming you are committed to “wave of”, you need something suitable to follow: “a wave of enthusiasm/agitation/fervour…”

2) Greater German (adjective) nationalism is linguistically challenging for the reader as, at first glance, it suggests increased nationalism on the part of Germans. You therefore need a formulation that is built around Greater Germany (noun): "enthusiasm/agitation for", "belief in"; "dedication to"

"Heim ins Reich," which literally means "Home into the Empire," was a policy pursued by Hitler beginning with the Anschluss of Austria and the annexation of Czechoslovakia's Sudetenland in 1938. The ultimate aim was to convince ethnic Germans living outside the Third Reich to agitate to be included in a so-called "Greater Germany."
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/03/05/hillary-clinton-c...

In view of all these considerations, the welcome accorded by the Swiss people and their representatives to their imperial host should not pass the point of simple dignity. It would be very regrettable if the Swiss people, by associating themselves too enthusiastically with the demonstrations of the 300,000 Germans who live in Switzerland, and the thousands who have flocked to Switzerland for the occasion, should give the impression that their enthusiasm for Greater Germany is more to them than their Republican traditions.
http://www.archive.org/stream/edinburghreviewo217londuoft/ed...

Even the young, for all their enthusiasm for a Greater Germany, were now anxious about the situation.
http://tinyurl.com/p9nmggd

In spite of their enthusiasm for a greater Germany, the various elements in liberalism have lacked the cementing force of some economic interest, and all of the brilliance of orators and statesmen like Bassermann and Paasche has not been able to replace this lack.
https://archive.org/stream/germanempirebetw027386mbp/germane...


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Note added at 9 hrs (2014-03-10 19:29:58 GMT)
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One of those factors was the compliance of conservative elites in the military, the civil administration and the world of business. They did not share Hitler's crude concept of racial superiority, and many of them feared a war with the Western powers. Nevertheless, they dreamed of acquiring global power and had aspirations to create a Greater Germany that would, at the very least, dominate Eastern Europe. They included men like Franz Halder, the commander-in-chief of the army, who announced in the spring of 1939 that his men had to overrun Poland and would then, "filled with the spirit of having emerged victorious from enormous battles, be prepared to either oppose Bolshevism or be thrown to the West."
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/the-road-to-world...


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days15 hrs (2014-03-13 01:19:30 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Pan-Germanism
I would associate this with the voluntary unification of states and peoples that had been artificially kept separate in the sole interest of their local rulers (Kleinstaaterei*). It is far too harmless a term/concept to apply to the annexation by force of a territory on the basis that a vocal minority 'invite' the protection of their kinsman over the border, as was the case in Bohemia/Sudetenland in 1938 (parallels with Crimea in 2014)

The song is also well known by the incipit and refrain of the first stanza, "Deutschland, Deutschland über alles" (literally, "Germany, Germany above all"), but this has never been its title. The line "Germany, Germany above all" meant that the most important goal of the Vormärz revolutionaries should be a unified Germany overcoming the perceived anti-liberal Kleinstaaterei. Along with the Flag of Germany, it was one of the symbols of the March Revolution of 1848.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutschlandlied

Kleinstaaterei is a German word, mainly used to denote the territorial fragmentation in Germany and neighbouring regions during the Holy Roman Empire (especially after the end of the Thirty Years' War) and during the German Confederation in the first half of the 19th century.[1] It refers to the large number of virtually sovereign medium and small secular and ecclesiastical principalities and Free Imperial cities, some of which were little larger than a single town or the grounds of the monastery of an Imperial abbey. Estimates of the total number of German states at any given time during the 18th century varies, ranging from 294 to 348,[2] to more.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleinstaaterei
Selected response from:

Lancashireman
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:19
Grading comment
Thanks to everyone for their quality suggestions.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +1Greater German nationalism
Michael Martin, MA
3 +1enthusiasm/agitation/fervour for (a) Greater Germany
Lancashireman
3German imperialism
ianwrhodes
Summary of reference entries provided
großdeutsch/alldeutsch
Johanna Timm, PhD

Discussion entries: 24





  

Answers


2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Greater German nationalism


Explanation:
'A wave of greater German nationalism washed over the region.'

Seems to me that historians have widely applied this term to distinctly different historical periods. I don't always see a clear-cut distinction between Greater German Nationalism and Pan-Germanism even though most seem to refer to Pan-Germanism as a political movement of the eighteen hundreds.

Compare with examples below:

"After the Anschluss these Nazi appeals to a Greater German nationalism became irresistible to the Sudeten Germans." http://books.google.com/books?id=Qy8WaU4FiL4C&pg=PA113&lpg=P...

"A common cultural German nationalism, for example, emerged during the fiftieth anniversary of the city's liberation. International events prior to and during 1863 certainly influenced Hamburgers' attitudes toward greater German nationalism." http://books.google.com/books?id=FVq5AAAAIAAJ&q="greater ger...

Michael Martin, MA
United States
Local time: 21:19
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 74

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Jim Tucker (X): or Pan-Germanism (whose goal was Grossdeutschland) / Yes I think you're right.
7 hrs
  ->  Thanks, Jim. But I am not sure about Pan-Germanism, though.
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1 day 4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
German imperialism


Explanation:
That's what I think I would use

ianwrhodes
Germany
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman, Native in EnglishEnglish
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

7 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
enthusiasm/agitation/fervour for (a) Greater Germany


Explanation:
!) Assuming you are committed to “wave of”, you need something suitable to follow: “a wave of enthusiasm/agitation/fervour…”

2) Greater German (adjective) nationalism is linguistically challenging for the reader as, at first glance, it suggests increased nationalism on the part of Germans. You therefore need a formulation that is built around Greater Germany (noun): "enthusiasm/agitation for", "belief in"; "dedication to"

"Heim ins Reich," which literally means "Home into the Empire," was a policy pursued by Hitler beginning with the Anschluss of Austria and the annexation of Czechoslovakia's Sudetenland in 1938. The ultimate aim was to convince ethnic Germans living outside the Third Reich to agitate to be included in a so-called "Greater Germany."
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/03/05/hillary-clinton-c...

In view of all these considerations, the welcome accorded by the Swiss people and their representatives to their imperial host should not pass the point of simple dignity. It would be very regrettable if the Swiss people, by associating themselves too enthusiastically with the demonstrations of the 300,000 Germans who live in Switzerland, and the thousands who have flocked to Switzerland for the occasion, should give the impression that their enthusiasm for Greater Germany is more to them than their Republican traditions.
http://www.archive.org/stream/edinburghreviewo217londuoft/ed...

Even the young, for all their enthusiasm for a Greater Germany, were now anxious about the situation.
http://tinyurl.com/p9nmggd

In spite of their enthusiasm for a greater Germany, the various elements in liberalism have lacked the cementing force of some economic interest, and all of the brilliance of orators and statesmen like Bassermann and Paasche has not been able to replace this lack.
https://archive.org/stream/germanempirebetw027386mbp/germane...


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2014-03-10 19:29:58 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

One of those factors was the compliance of conservative elites in the military, the civil administration and the world of business. They did not share Hitler's crude concept of racial superiority, and many of them feared a war with the Western powers. Nevertheless, they dreamed of acquiring global power and had aspirations to create a Greater Germany that would, at the very least, dominate Eastern Europe. They included men like Franz Halder, the commander-in-chief of the army, who announced in the spring of 1939 that his men had to overrun Poland and would then, "filled with the spirit of having emerged victorious from enormous battles, be prepared to either oppose Bolshevism or be thrown to the West."
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/the-road-to-world...


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days15 hrs (2014-03-13 01:19:30 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Pan-Germanism
I would associate this with the voluntary unification of states and peoples that had been artificially kept separate in the sole interest of their local rulers (Kleinstaaterei*). It is far too harmless a term/concept to apply to the annexation by force of a territory on the basis that a vocal minority 'invite' the protection of their kinsman over the border, as was the case in Bohemia/Sudetenland in 1938 (parallels with Crimea in 2014)

The song is also well known by the incipit and refrain of the first stanza, "Deutschland, Deutschland über alles" (literally, "Germany, Germany above all"), but this has never been its title. The line "Germany, Germany above all" meant that the most important goal of the Vormärz revolutionaries should be a unified Germany overcoming the perceived anti-liberal Kleinstaaterei. Along with the Flag of Germany, it was one of the symbols of the March Revolution of 1848.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutschlandlied

Kleinstaaterei is a German word, mainly used to denote the territorial fragmentation in Germany and neighbouring regions during the Holy Roman Empire (especially after the end of the Thirty Years' War) and during the German Confederation in the first half of the 19th century.[1] It refers to the large number of virtually sovereign medium and small secular and ecclesiastical principalities and Free Imperial cities, some of which were little larger than a single town or the grounds of the monastery of an Imperial abbey. Estimates of the total number of German states at any given time during the 18th century varies, ranging from 294 to 348,[2] to more.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleinstaaterei

Lancashireman
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:19
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 252
Grading comment
Thanks to everyone for their quality suggestions.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  opolt: Hits the nail on the head for me.
7 hrs
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Reference comments


10 hrs peer agreement (net): +3
Reference: großdeutsch/alldeutsch

Reference information:
"This article […] argues that the großdeutsch idea (the historical idea that a German nation state should include Austria) and support for an Anschluss (an Austro-German political union) were central to republicans’ energetic efforts to win over sceptics and attack the claims of their political opponents. Members of the Weimar Coalition parties and the Social Democratic Party of Austria drew a distinction between großdeutsch (greater German) and alldeutsch (pan-German) conceptions of nationhood, and thereby attempted to articulate a form of German nationalism that was compatible with a democratic body politic, a pluralistic society and peaceful international relations."
http://gh.oxfordjournals.org/content/32/1/29.abstract

Johanna Timm, PhD
Canada
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 60

Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
agree  Jim Tucker (X): ...though the same distinction probably doesn't apply to the Third Reich, especially given the last three criteria in the above description.
6 hrs
agree  Kirsten Bodart: Pan-Germanism likely gave rise to the NS movement too (or contributed to it in a major way). Pan-Germanism has my vote too.
15 hrs
  -> the author of this article seems to suggest alldeutsch=pan German
agree  Helen Shiner
2 days 3 hrs
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