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The asker opted for community grading. The question was closed on 2014-11-18 07:54:08 based on peer agreement (or, if there were too few peer comments, asker preference.)
German to English translations [PRO] Art/Literary - History / Non-fiction text
German term or phrase:Normtreue
'An vielem hat es ihnen in ihrem Leben gemangelt, an Normtreue aber nie.'
The text is about the Nazi war trials and is describing how many leading Nazis got off more or less scott free.
I know the Normtreue is referring to the fact that they were conformists, who obeyed orders, but the word Norm comes from a legal term and I just can't find a one-word solution along the lines of being law-abiding / conform / loyal to the regime.
"obedience" rather translates "Gehorsam" which, as has been noted, relates more to a personal relationship rather than to the inclination to follow rules without inner reservations.
Ramey Rieger (X)
Germany
Just to clarify
19:51 Nov 16, 2014
I think obedience is good suggestion. I also think it can be taken further, which is why I didn't agree with it. Greetings gladly given.
I actually didn't like "obedience" either (didn't make that clear enough) but our disagreement seems to be going in opposite directions...Still, I sign up to the rest of your well-made points. Have a good evening and greet the homeland from me.
Ramey Rieger (X)
Germany
@Michael
19:06 Nov 16, 2014
Only the asker can know for sure, yet loyal to the regime is decidedly allegiance. Unfortunately, like so many askers, he/she is holding back on both the discussion and with context. Pity, really, it sounds like an interesting text. Have good Sunday afternoon, my greetings to the homeland.
Perhaps you’re right. You always have to consider the context, of course. But you also may have a legal shading in play here (as asker has hinted). To me at least, Normtreue sounds like it has been deliberately chosen to reflect detachment rather than emotion.
Ramey Rieger (X)
Germany
@Michael
14:59 Nov 16, 2014
Considering the context, I think it's quite justifiable to read a bit more than obediance into the term. Fact is, their allegiance to this specific cause went so far, they killed over 6 million people. I'd call that a much more than obedience.
against reading too much into the term. Normtreue, on the face of it, just means having an affinity for following rules no matter what their source. It’s not the same as allegiance because you can only have allegiance to a specific cause. Obedience, by comparison, shifts the focus to the outcome of somebody's actions (being compliant) rather than talking about a person’s mindset. Which is where the main focus is, in my opinion.
Ramey Rieger (X)
Germany
Done!
13:51 Nov 15, 2014
@Yorkshireman - Yes, I just came back in from cutting our robinia, thorny business, too. I've already moved the berries and have pretty much cut one of my hazelnuts down to the core. Enough for today. tomorrow is also good day for cutting trees and bushes, according to the moon calendar.
So much easier in German: Regimetreue, Linientreue, Kadavergehorsam...
Have a good weekend - mine will be thorny, I'm replanting roses and gooseberry bushes :-)
Ramey Rieger (X)
Germany
Hi Yorkshireman
08:17 Nov 15, 2014
Too demeaning for my taste. I don't believe they saw themselves as 'beneath' Hitler or the Nazi regime in the sense that they had to 'grovel.' I believe they were convinced of their racial superiority and adopted the role of helpless victim when it came down to taking responsibility for their actions. I believe it went beyond obedience, although that is certainly a strong factor in German conditioning, encompassing a loyaltly to a dogma which they felt would raise them as a nation out of their depressed condition. Hence, allegiance.
peer agreement (net): +7