Zehnsleiche

15:52 Sep 27, 2019 

You're too kind, but you basically got there on your own.

Also, to be honest, the posts in response to my most recent d-box Q (this excludes the ones you made) were a bit confusing to me (no offense to anyone), so I wasn't sure anymore how I could sum it all up to help future askers.

Anyway, all's well that ends well and I'm just glad my comments were of some use to you.

Best wishes

15:36 Sep 26, 2019 

I closed without grading, since neither of the proposed answers worked. However, I would have awarded points to Björn Vrooman, if he had put the information he provided in the discussion entries into an answer. He did provide the information needed to determine the precise meaning of the term!

12:21 Sep 17, 2019 

I'd suggest you use "mid-morning" rather than "late morning", as that tends to be 11 am-ish. At least, to this English native! I've nothing against "ten o'clock burial" either. Then perhaps "noontide" and "early afternoon".

11:45 Sep 17, 2019 

"Late-morning burial" or "Ten o'clock burial" would even work, since I will be including a lengthy footnote to explain the word.

07:48 Sep 17, 2019 

since you want to be specific and NOT say morning burials, I would go with pre-noon burials. Neither option is truly elegant, nor is 'burial in the forenoon.' Just write it out and then maybe Timoshka can spare the explanation: a burial usually taking place at ten o'clock in the morning.

07:23 Sep 17, 2019 

Also @Ramey, I thought about this too. However, I didn't find any example of forenoon being used as a noun modifier (before seeing "forenoon watch" somewhere).

Plus, I remembered that one discussion you and Lancashireman had about whether to use a compound noun or an "of" construction, so I wasn't sure whether usage differs based on what side of the pond you live on.

I guess shorter is better.

Last question: Does this mean midday/noon and afternoon burial would be acceptable regarding Zwölfsleiche and Einsleiche, considering there are usually(!) no burials past three or six? Additionally: "From there we acquired the word afternoon, formed in 13th-century Middle English as afternone, originally referring to the period of day after the midday meal but before the evening meal."
https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/noon-history-n...

That'd be about right. If a German told me I should meet them in the afternoon, my guess would be some time past one--not at 12.30.

Best

06:15 Sep 17, 2019 

would be more fluently laid to rest :-).

23:34 Sep 16, 2019 

I think "burial in the forenoon" is as good as anything, since almost any translation would require a footnote to explain the whole concept. Plus, "ten o'clock corpse" sounds a little gruesome. :-)

23:02 Sep 16, 2019 

The Roman numeral next to Zehnsleiche must be a reference to, as you put it, "the type or extent of funeral services that were provided"; again, see the quote(s) below.

As for the MGH reference, I don't entirely trust it because (a) the document consists of text fragments, (b) I can't verify that the author, who is presumably a Wattenbach "descendant," is not merely a hobby genealogist, (c) the script is hard to decipher (I saw there was a minor error in your quote: it should be "die nach 1 Uhr begraben..."), so mistakes are not an uncommon occurence (one of the docs I've seen stated that someone was supposedly buried on the 41st of the month!) and (d) the wording is easy to misinterpret; both times, the text says "als einer" = is regarded as/considered, not just is.

Also, @Charles, if this were about the number of internments, it wouldn't make sense to have 9 Zehnsleichen, as Timoshka wrote, unless you want to tell me they brought the tenth one back from the dead.

Best wishes

22:44 Sep 16, 2019 

I apologize, I first had to find something that fits the context.

Timoshka (also @anyone else), what do you think about "burial in the forenoon"?

Similarly:
"Father and Mother went over to John Haun's funeral in the forenoon"
http://sites.rootsweb.com/~onniagar/welland/crowland/diaryof...

This would circumvent the problem that Zehnsleichen could have been buried at 11 (see your quote below). Even though it was passed a bit later, the UK's Burial Laws Amendment Act 1880 could be of some interest here:
"Provided that, unless it shall be otherwise mutually arranged, the time of such burial shall be between the hours of ten o’clock in the forenoon and six o’clock in the afternoon if the burial be between the first day of April and the first day of October, and between the hours of ten o’clock in the forenoon and three o’clock in the afternoon if the burial be between the first day of October and the first day of April..."
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/43-44/41

Thus, the usual starting time throughout the year is 10 o'clock (see also PS2 post below; there are some exceptions, of course).

[...]

13:45 Sep 16, 2019 

post as an answer please, as your research seems to have led to the answer.

09:01 Sep 16, 2019 

Excellent research.

07:52 Sep 16, 2019 

Such excellent research, I'm envious!

01:04 Sep 16, 2019 

That the various terms (Eins-Leiche, Zwölfs-Leiche, Zehns-Leiche) are named for the TIME OF BURIAL becomes apparent by a following passage: “Bey einer Zwölfs-Leiche, wobey nur 3 Glocken gezogen werden, hat der eine Prediger für die Predigt und Begleitung 4 Rthlr., der andere aber in allem 2 Rthlr. zu geniessen. Uebrigens sollen die Leichen, welche zwischen 10 bis 12 Uhr unter dem Geläute von 2 Glocken begraben werden, also eine Zehens-Leiche von der ersten Sorte; diejenigen welche zwischen 12 und 1 Uhr gebraben werden, als eine Zwölfs-Leiche, und die nach 2 Uhr begraben werden, al seine Eins-Leiche angesehen, und darnach auch die Gebühren bezahlet werden.”

01:04 Sep 16, 2019 

§3. “Alle und jede, welche zu 10 Uhr begraben werden, und daferne eine Leichen-Predigt verlanget wird, soll der Prediger für solche Predigt 2 Mk.* zu geniessen haben, es sey dann, daß einer von selbsten mehr wollte geben, so frey gelassen wird; sollten aber 2, 3 oder mehrere Leichen auf einen Vormittag begraben werden, so soll der Prediger dennoch über alle solche Leichen, nicht mehr den eine Predigt halten, und für jede (Leiche) ein halber Rthlr. gegeben werden, es wäre den, daß einer mehr geben wollte.

*Vermöge des vorangeführten, unterm 26. Jan. 1734 getroffenen Vergleichs, werden dem Prediger für eine sogenannte Zehensleiche von der dritten Sorte, das ist für eine solche Leiche, welche um 10 Uhr ohne Gesang bey der Thüre und nach der Predigt, begraben wird, zwar nach wie vor, nur 2 Mk. entrichtet, dagegen hat er für eine Zehens-Leiche von der ersten Sorte, wo bey der Thüre und auch nach der Predigt gesungen wird, 1 Rthlr. 16 ßl., und für diene Zehens-Leiche von der zweyten Sorte, wo vor der Thüre, aber nicht nach der Predigt gesungen wird, 1 Rthlr. für die Predigt zu geniessen. Bey allen 3 Sorten der Zehens-Leichen werden nur 2 Glocken gezogen.” (To be continued.)

01:03 Sep 16, 2019 

Vielen Dank! The reference you provided seems to solve the mystery. The names of the Zehnsleiche, Zwölfsleiche and Einsleiche were undoubtedly named according to the TIME OF BURIAL, and not number of bodies buried, etc. The reference you provided was: Corpus Statutorum Slesvicensium, oder: Sammlung der in dem Herzogthum Schleswig geltenden Land- und Stadt-Rechte, nebst den für diese Gegenden erlassenen neueren Verfügungen. (Schleswig, 1812), Dritter Band, Seiten 54-57. And the specific document that addresses the issue was the “Vergleich zwischen Bürgermeister, Rath und Deputirten, eines, und denen Predigern der Stadt Tönning, andern Theils, wegen der Leichen-Beerdigungen…d.d. Hamburg, den 21sten April, 1684.”

I'll post the critical content in another discussion entry, in case anyone else might find it of interest. It sure helped me!

22:00 Sep 15, 2019 

Thanks! I see. Though 5 o'clock in the morning is a bit odd.

In any case, he can't have been a pauper according to this:
"Es gab sowohl Einzelgräber als auch vererbbare Begräbnisstätten. Am begehrtesten waren die Grabstellen in der Kirche, besonders die im Chor; sie waren überwiegend den Geistlichen, dem Adel und dem höheren Bürgertum vorbehalten."
http://history-st-benedikt.herbern.de/Bestattungskultur_neu....

Best

21:41 Sep 15, 2019 

First reference, page 12 of 24

21:13 Sep 15, 2019 

Now I see Charles had already posted the reference; sorry, but I overlooked that cryptic link at the end. I'll leave up the d-box posts, though, since the additional -e- wasn't mentioned by Charles nor were the "Sorten."

Also, you can look for the burial times and you'll find something like this:
https://www.kghwst.de/friedhofswesen/friedhofssatzung

They have it at 10 (popular time all around) and 13 Uhr ("1 Uhr mittags," see below).

Best

21:01 Sep 15, 2019 

However, your first reference seems to contradict the time angle (um 5 Uhr); could you point out to me where in the document you found this? I can't search the doc normally for some reason. Thank you.

20:56 Sep 15, 2019 

Kim's reference did help to find a book titled "Corpus Statutorum Slesvicensium...Bände 2-3" on GoogleBooks. Please google it. You'll see that a Zehnsleiche may also be called a Zehensleiche (p. 383).

An explanation can be found on page 55 [emphasis added]: "eine sogenannte Zehensleiche von der dritten Sorte, das ist eine solche Leiche, welche um 10 Uhr ohne Gesang [...], begraben wird..."

The difference to a "Zehensleiche von der ersten Sorte" or "zweiten Sorte" (see further below in the text) is Gesang, etc.

An explanation of Einsleiche can be found on p. 56 and that's one you buried at "1 Uhr mittags"...

Thus, this has nothing to do with the burial space or the money paid for it; it's the time at which these people were buried.

Best

17:32 Sep 15, 2019 

2) Für sogenannte Einsleiche, wo nur 4 Glocken geläutet werden, erhält der Prediger, der die Woche hat, für die Predigt 5 Rthlr
https://tinyurl.com/yxtwjdnh

16:36 Sep 15, 2019 

So, the Zehnsleiche could be a burial for which only ten shillings were paid? A ten-shilling burial may be an option.

15:55 Sep 15, 2019 

Auch ist es wichtig, dass in einer Läuteordnung, die der Kirchengemeinderat festgelegt hat, genau bestimmt ist, zu welchen Gottesdiensten und Läuteanlässen mit wie vielen Glocken geläutet wird.
Das Vollgeläute bleibt dem sonntäglichen Hauptgottesdienst vorbehalten, dagegen werden zu kleineren Werktags- oder Nebengottesdiensten entsprechend kleinere Geläute zusammengestellt. Es sollten möglichst auch Trauungen und Beerdigungsgottesdienste deutlich von einander unterschieden werden.
https://www.kirchenbezirk-geislingen.de/kunst-und-kultur/his...
Während der ganzen Zeremonie, vor allem aber während sich der Trauerzug zur Kirche bewegte, läuteten die Glocken. Wie für den Versehgang war auch dieses Läuten genau geordnet. Für eine
erwachsene Leiche sollten, mit der grossen Glocke drei mal geläutet werden. Für die Kinder wurde nur mit der dritten Glocke geläutet. Entsprechend abgestuft waren auch die Tarife. Für die dritte Glocke bekam der Siegrist zehn, für die grosse Glocke aber zwanzig Schillinge. Für den feierlichen Zug zum Friedhof waren bestimmte Massnahmen zu beachten. http://tobtom.info/inhalt/doku/2000_exit_dok.pdf

15:13 Sep 15, 2019 

Given what Kim has found, I still feel this might be about how many people are buried in a specific plot. It may be that the ground has been designated as suitable for burials one over the other - the document I provided said that a year had to pass before a further corpse was added to a plot. On the other hand, it might be a response to a dreadful epidemic of some kind and the need to bury large numbers quickly. I don't know the date of the records, but could it be plague or influenza?

14:59 Sep 15, 2019 

This is not related to war graves. On one sample page from the burial register of Tönning, Germany, there are 12 deaths recorded. 3 bear the notation "Armenleiche" and the other 9 bear the notation "Zehnsleiche." It doesn't seem to be a matter of age either. Those marked "Zehnsleiche" range in age from 5 days to 87 years! Perhaps it has something to do with what sort of services were paid for or provided? I just don't know...

11:08 Sep 15, 2019 

Are these referring to war graves? It seems to bodies buried in common graves, but whether within a family plot or anonymous is uncertain.