von Vornehmen der Vornehmste; von Rückgebern der Rückgebigste

16:12 Jan 28, 2014 

I totally agree ;)

22:41 Jan 26, 2014 

I'm probably going to end up using something along the lines of "most giving", which came from your comment - would you post it as an answer??

20:11 Jan 26, 2014 

A more finely nuanced system:
disagree > don't really agree > agree > totally agree

18:48 Jan 26, 2014 

Just saw Kirsten's answer after I pressed submit ;)

the nonsensical translation I found that definitely was not from a native English speaker used 'requite' for 'rückgeben' - I'm not suggesting that at all as a possibility but you can see why a non-native looking up the dictionary would've thought it could work - basically the idea of giving back 'in return', but the addition of 'love' is pretty strange to me, seems like quite an assumption without further information, I would like to see the thoughts behind that decision.

18:44 Jan 26, 2014 

of course you wouldn't use anything really terrible, but most published ones are not terrible anyway.

18:40 Jan 26, 2014 

I don't really agree Andrew. Sure, any translation, whether widely accepted or not, may be full of mistakes, e.g. Lowe-Porter's versions of Thomas Mann's works, so we as translators have every right to challenge any translation that is out there and offer a better one if we can, but I would definitely prefer to use an existing translation of, e.g., Goethe than attempt my own - in either case it should be noted where the translation comes from or from whom. The Leopold museum has been involved in various translations of Schiele's writing, so assuming that a lot of research was undertaken by people who have access to far more of Schiele's works than any of us could ever hope for, I definitely think their translation has a lot of weight - if I find the translation terrible and/or it seems that it was not properly researched etc. of course it's ok to offer your own - with a note to the client/end reader. It of course depends on the work, the purpose of the translation etc. too.

18:22 Jan 26, 2014 

Or our Asker has to call the museum and see (or contact the blog poster). Of course I wouldn't be happy to use it either without source (it could also have been a perpetuated bad/clumsy translation for that matter), but I think it keeps in mind the original very much (if the 'yearn to give love in return' is based on Schiele's ideas which I am inclined to think it is).

@Andrew
In literature there is something like 'accepted translation' which is practically what has been published already (allowing exceptions for definitive ones). If there are several translations from one quote (for authors like Goethe, for example), you take one. As a reader, I find it pretty annoying if a quote is mistranslated, because it denies you the chance of finding out where it came from in the first place. That said, the published translation was probably thought about more, so I would be inclined to think that any published translations are more specific than the ones we would be suggesting here, even if they were 'legitimate'.
'Vornehm' means noble as in respected, cultivated, moral, etc.. Noble is the best option. I rather think 'rückgeben' is the problem here.

18:03 Jan 26, 2014 

Is there such a thing? Even the "original translation" if not done by Schiele or subsequently approved by him has no more validity than a suggestion posted here on proz.com. There seems to be an assumption that, because one translator rendered 'vornehm' as 'noble', all subsequent attempts must follow suit.

17:49 Jan 26, 2014 

Yes, I agree - its very interesting, for example, the blog I mentioned below has photos and other snippets of info directly from the exhib - it seems quite likely to me that she also took this translation from the exhibition, Schiele's poems have been translated - but I would be afraid to use this version without a reference to the source, would suggest the client needs to get hold of a copy of the original translation, everything else is guesswork.

19:30 Jan 25, 2014 

it usually comes from somewhere, but that's the question. Because it was such a leap, I thought it was better, because 'rückgeben' means to return something that you receive (as Horst [?] has said with 'to give back'). If it is an official translation (which I'm not saying it is), the leap will have been thoroughly considered (based on Schiele's ideas). But you would have to check the source and up till now I haven't been successful. I mean, it's definitely not a shoddy translation, because it's too specific, but other than that I can't say.

13:45 Jan 25, 2014 

Wow, where on earth does that one come from?! As in, I see its on lots of tumblr/blog sites but none of them provide a source. They must have got it from somewhere tho, one of the bloggers is describing their visit to the Leopold with pictures etc. - it couldnt be from the museum?! But "yearn to give love in return" seems like an incredible leap!

11:43 Jan 25, 2014 

"Of noble hearts, I am the noblest - and the most generous of those that yearn to give love in return."
I don't know what source it comes from. Anyone any ideas?

02:02 Jan 25, 2014 

what an unsophisticated thought, that Schiele just meant what he said, "giving back"? We hear it from all the athletes and celebrities, that they occasionally feel they need to do just that. So what would be so terribly wrong with, "of the eminent, the preeminent, of those giving back, the givingest/the one giving the most"?

16:16 Jan 24, 2014 

Thank you.

16:14 Jan 24, 2014 

re. humble - and generally :)

15:55 Jan 24, 2014 

I don't think the second link is on the right track at all. It is not about being 'humble' (rather the opposite). It is about one's internal state being of value, sufficient value, indeed, to become the subject of one's art.

15:53 Jan 24, 2014 

That's very interesting. Particularly the sense that it has been interpreted as him giving of himself, rather than conveying (what is seen/sensed), via his art. That does accord with the Expressionist worldview. That an artist's work was to 'express' his inner being and sense of spirituality/authentic standpoint via his art and that it was considered possible to do so. Other artistic movements have been constructed in opposition to this, but it was a huge theme amongst the Expressionists. I would encourage you to post this and/or for Rachel to go with something along these lines.

15:48 Jan 24, 2014 

Well done, I was only able to find one attempt at a translation so far, which was complete nonsense! Its very irritating that amazon, google etc. don't provide a list of contents for any of the books with translations of poetry by Schiele - if there is an "official" translation it would be good to get hold of it.

14:46 Jan 24, 2014 

which may inspire someone:

In Schiele everything comes back to the desiring subject, to the narcissistic, onanistic seat of all shimmering interests of self. "I am for myself," he writes in his "Self-Portrait" of 1910, "and for those to whom my thirsty, drunken craving to be free gives everything, and also for all, for I love—I also love all. I am the noblest of the noble" (Schiele 1921: 19; Nebehay 1979: 142). In his self-portraits, the noblest of the noble gives all that he knows of himself to the world.
http://publishing.cdlib.org/ucpressebooks/view?docId=ft5v19n...

Also:
"I am the noblest of the noble, and the humblest of the humble," Schiele once wrote in an autobiographical prose poem. "I am human. I love death and I love life."
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=rtVKAQAAIAAJ&q="the noble...

14:01 Jan 24, 2014 

http://www.egonschiele.at/home_en.php

unfortunately there are translations for the first few lines and the last but no one seems to have attempted this bit!

13:32 Jan 24, 2014 

"Not backward in coming forward"

13:25 Jan 24, 2014 

... already posted in my question, but thanks Andrew ;-)

12:41 Jan 24, 2014 

http://dict.leo.org/forum/viewUnsolvedquery.php?idThread=108...
vor-nehmen / rück- geben